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The piece that is missing right now for most artists is understanding that when you want

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to run a pre-save campaign, you don't have to run a Spotify pre-save campaign.

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What you are doing is basically growing your list of more sort of intimate fans.

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What's going on, everybody?

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Thank you for joining this edition of the Cutting Through Podcast.

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My name is Elliott Towsley, and I am your host.

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Today, we're going to be getting real about the world of music marketing with Giovanni

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Battone.

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He is the CEO of Noise Lash and a music marketer with years of expertise under his belt.

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He's here to break down what works, what doesn't, and why being genuine is the key in this digital

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world.

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So get ready for some no bullshit straight talk.

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Time to cut through the music business yet again with Giovanni Battone.

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Gio from Noise Lash, Smart Noise.

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How are you, my man?

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I'm doing all right, man.

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I'm doing all right.

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I am really interested in speaking with you today.

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It's not often I get to speak with music marketers in other countries.

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I saw that your company, I get them mixed up, Smart Noise and Noise Lash, right?

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Those are both like headquartered in Italy, right?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I think we have quite a few times between us.

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But yeah, both are being operated by me here in Venice, Italy.

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But then there are a few team members that are in the US, Canada, UK as well.

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But yeah, everything, I guess, starts from here, yeah.

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How long have you been involved with the music industry over there in Italy?

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Man, since I was like 10 probably, I don't know, but I basically started playing guitar

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when I was, I don't know, 12, 13, something like that.

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And then eventually I was producing mixing bands full time and I was hearing the same

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problem like, I have this new single, we have this new album, now what?

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What do we do?

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Now what?

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And so I basically started helping them out and trying a bunch of stuff, IG ads, Facebook

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ads, back in 2016-ish when Facebook ads were, I don't want to say free, but close to being

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free.

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And so, and yeah, and I did some cool stuff for my own band as well.

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We released our album in 2017, got almost 700,000 streams in like six or seven months,

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got editorial support, and then there was me doing all this digital marketing stuff.

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So I just thought, hmm, maybe there is something going on here.

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And so I started doing that for local businesses actually first.

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And so I did it for a bunch of real estate agencies and then a few local restaurants.

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And then it's so funny, in February 2020, when the funniest time of our lives happened,

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I basically decided to blend the two things.

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So the music side of things with marketing and then Noiseless, which is the agency was

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born.

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But then Smart Noise, the software company is just six months old, eight months old.

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So it's fairly new.

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But yeah, I've basically done nothing but music my whole life anyway.

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And I'm wondering, no, Italy was kind of obviously like the whole pandemic, it kind of started

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in China.

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But I feel like it really hit at least in our media here, when it hit Italy so hard

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was when it was kind of like, oh, wow, this is a real thing.

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Like Italy, a modern European country is shut down because of this pandemic, like, oh, shit,

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this is real.

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What was it like being in that situation where you were kind of like the first or second

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ones in line for this unexpected journey?

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What was that like in February through like April?

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What was that like in Italy?

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I mean, dude, it was a complete chaos, honestly, because there were some countries that were

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taking the COVID thing a little less serious, I would say.

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But apparently here, they took things really, really serious.

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And so they basically shut down everything.

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And I mean everything, except for like hospitals and like really essential places, but in like

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February.

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So pretty much immediately, you know.

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And so it's also funnier because I was going through this sort of, I would say, career

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where I was going from mixing bands full time to doing this marketing stuff.

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And at the same time, it's even funnier.

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That's when I moved in with my girlfriend as well.

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And so all these things were happening and like changing so fast that I mean, I was in

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a very fortunate position because I mean, I did okay.

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But I mean, for 95% of people was like way, way worse.

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Like so many people lost their job.

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But it's, I think the same thing happened over there in the US as well.

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And so we just experienced it first, I guess.

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Isn't it incredible to think that like four years ago, TikTok wasn't even a thing.

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And now it is such a pivotal part of the ever evolving landscape that is the music business.

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I think Giovanni does a great job of explaining how that landscape evolves and how you need

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to continuously be developing different skills in different domains.

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Let's talk about some of the different marketing and advertising skills that Giovanni has learned

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specific to the music business.

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Yeah, I think you guys did kind of like experience it first, at least in like the window that

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we were looking through when it hit Italy.

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That's kind of like when it became a big deal.

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I remember when it got to the States when I thought it was a big deal was when they

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shut off the NBA, like right before the game started, they were like, we need to cancel

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this.

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Somebody here has COVID.

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We got to get out of here.

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And then like, that was like the day for me where I was like, oh, whoa.

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And then like, it was right around this time of year in 2020.

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And then they canceled the March Madness like basketball tournament, which is like this

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huge $5 billion dollar money making machine.

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And they canceled it.

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And I was like, oh, this is real.

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I went home and just stayed with my parents for a couple of weeks.

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And that's actually coincidentally is kind of when I got really two feet into like music

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marketing was right around that time at the end of 2019.

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It was like what I was doing full time.

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But when COVID hit, it was like all these musicians who used to have all these other

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outlets touring, recording a ton in their studio, maybe like any sort of way where all

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of a sudden the normal music business was completely no longer available for indefinitely.

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Is that when like, did you jump into getting more involved with music because all of a

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sudden there was a lot more opportunity to do so?

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Or was it kind of like a coincidence?

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Yeah, I know, honestly, it was really random, to be completely honest with you, because

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I so Noislash was official in March in February, March of 2020.

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But I sort of unofficially started doing it in October 19 ish.

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And so I wasn't even planning this this whole thing.

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I just it just happened to be at the time where also everything shut down and also most

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music artists were relying on tours and other outlets.

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Like you were saying that I just happened to do that stuff, too.

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So, yeah, I think it's really interesting.

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A lot of the music marketers or music people I have come across, almost all of them started

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as a musician at some point.

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Hey, I was playing the guitar when I was 12 years old or like I was in a band and like

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and then you you made an interesting transition where you were musician.

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And then I'm sure you picked up some skills on how to market just the band.

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But then you started applying them to a like a business outside of music, real estate

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companies. And it's funny because I did somewhat of a similar path.

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But I went right from kind of learning how to run my own ads to running them for musicians.

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And then much later on, I kind of started doing them for businesses.

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And it's funny how we can kind of switch those places.

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Yeah, I think this is something that a lot of people experience.

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And in in what I've done, I've always been the kind of person who was simply trying a

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bunch of stuff because I just genuinely like a like a bunch of stuff.

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I mean, I like trying different things.

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And so I just it was very natural to me.

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And I think the biggest sort of turning point for me was when I stopped trying to think

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about, oh, I need to stick to just one thing.

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I need to just stick to one thing, because that's true for a lot of people.

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And I think just doing one thing is what you what most people should do anyway.

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But thankfully, it has worked for me because it's even funnier, because even before this

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no slash thing, I actually sold a few products on Amazon USA for like five months.

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Sure. That that that was just me like trying a bunch of stuff, you know.

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And yeah, man, thankfully, it turned out OK.

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So yeah, but I think I would never stop like trying a bunch of different things, because

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that's usually what leads you to discover the thing that you like the most, you know,

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because if I didn't try Facebook ads after I was mixing bands and if I didn't try to

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run ads for Ecom brand and get them to like zero to fifty thousand euros in sales in three

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months, I would have never thought, oh, OK, maybe I can combine the two things and actually

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do this sort of marketing things for music artists and especially music.

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I think it's fairly important and I think you can agree with me that when you come across

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as, oh, I've never done music in my life, I have no idea what it means to go on tour

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and stuff like that. But now I'm going to teach you and I'm and I'm going to show you

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how to market your music. I think you can still do that, because if you talk with like

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a random, huge business person, I think they would have great insights on how you can grow

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like a music business as well. But in storytelling point point point of view, slash

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personal point of view, if you if they know that you also experience what they've

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experienced and what they are also experiencing right now, I think it's it's it's just better

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for everybody, honestly, because they can relate to you and you can relate to them.

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And so, yeah, I think that's really important.

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I think it's really important, I think, because it's almost like to a degree, you can be like

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a Facebook ad whiz in general. But if you know what it's like to be the musician, like

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before the point where you're setting up an ad, it absolutely has a ton of value. I know

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a lot of the value that I think I have seen come out when I'm dealing with musicians is

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a lot of time. Like, I just it's almost like I know the language that the musician is

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speaking. I've been in their shoes. So now that I happen to be more involved with digital

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marketing, let me just like make this make sense in their language to the musician.

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And it's interesting when you have that actual experience that's not based on some

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theory or not like regurgitated tip that you've seen on YouTube, like you can actually be

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like, oh, yeah, I've been in a similar situation. I tried these two things. This one

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didn't work. So how about we try this with you? And part of that, like all of that

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experimenting that kind of led you to trying Facebook ads and trying these new things and

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ending up where you are. Do you try to get that approach across to the musicians as

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well? Like, hey, we got to try five or six different things here. You know, we got we

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got to find what works.

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Yeah, man. Again, I don't think there is any other way to approach music artists,

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especially because as a music artist myself and yourself and knowing how other music

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artists think they are extremely mean, especially with all the things going on right

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now in the music industry. That's such a let's say complicated industry to be in. Let's

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put it this way. It's really hard for people to basically trust anybody. You know, and I

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think that's also something that that happens to your agency as well, where some artists,

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thankfully not all of them. It's a small percentage now. But the first thing that they

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actually ask us is, how do I know that what you guys do is legit? And I think it's a super

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fair question, but it also makes me sad in a way because you will never go to a Facebook

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agency that works with like local restaurants and ask them, hey, the sales that you guys

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will be bringing in, will they be real? I mean, what does it mean? Of course, it's real.

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But it's because it's music and it's because it's being contaminated by so many like, not

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so nice people. Let's just put it this way. I think that's actually I mean, just saying,

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hey, I actually had a band. Here's the name. Look at the numbers. I mean, we weren't a

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huge band. Yeah. But we opened for some of my favorite bands. We toured in almost every

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country here in Europe. We played some pretty big shows. And so at least I have that. And

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then there are also I mean, yeah, man, it's a it's really complicated. But I think going

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back to the like being a musician when you can also show this. So hey, I'm like you. Yeah, I

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think that's that's one of the best quote unquote, selling points.

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Yeah, sure. Well, I think you're 100% right. It is a totally fair question. I think when I

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was getting started, when I kind of made that transition from just a guy making music to

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being like, hey, maybe I can help people do some of these things. And I never got to go on

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like, you know, a big long tour like that. But I was able to do that book myself 20 or 30 paid

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gigs, and kind of like learned how to speak to a venue owner how to put on a show how to sell

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tickets, how to sell it, you know, make ads and all that kind of stuff. And even though I was

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able to do it on a small level, it's like if I can get two steps ahead of you, like I can teach

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you how to get here. And like, a lot of people have trouble getting here. And it's like, okay, if

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I can get an artist here, then maybe I pass them to geo when it's time for them to go on like a

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tour. But a lot of like what I experienced in like the music marketing world is exactly right, a

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bunch of people who are saying one thing doing another, or even if they are doing something

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that's like legit. A lot of folks have a very bad approach of setting expectations, where a lot of

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the messaging is like, come work with me. And in three steps, we'll go viral next Tuesday. And

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it's like, and or, you know, it's ridiculous, you get some guys sitting in a rented Rolls Royce in

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the in a backseat talking about how easy it is to make the hundreds. It's just it's a lot of fluff

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and a lot of nonsense. So I think like, years ago, when we kind of got in and started, we're like,

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well, what are we going to do? How do we don't want to just be another guy saying how easy it is, we

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kind of just flipped it. And we're like, everyone's telling you how easy the music business is. But if

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you've tried anything, you've probably realized it's not. So if you want a real approach, like, give

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us a call. And it really resonated with the folks who had been, you know, scammed, whatever you want

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to call it, like led astray, like told one thing, and something else happened. We really resonated

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with the folks. When I was like, Yeah, I've been scammed, too. Like, this happened to me. And for

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these reasons, you know, I found this path, but I stepped on these landmines along the way. So my

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value to you is we can walk this path and I'll show you where not to step.

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Yeah. And I mean, I don't know about you. But dude, I like, thankfully, I mean, like not 100% of all

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the campaigns and artists that we work with turn turn out to be extremely successful. I mean, I

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will be lying if I said that is the truth. But sure, at the same time, what I think is, is my

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biggest strength, but at the same time, my my sort of weakest thing is that if I know that an artist

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that we are working with is not happy, or is thinking that we are not not working hard enough, I

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mean, I just can't sleep, dude. I mean, I feel so bad that I even talk about that with my girlfriend

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like so many times, I just feel bad when it's not even that we are not delivering results. It's just

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that we are not meeting their expectations. And that's the thing that I mean, that's the thing that

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I honestly hate the most about, I don't want to say myself, but the thing that is being created by

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not setting up the proper expectations. But thankfully, it's like, it happens once every freaking

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two years, maybe. But at the same time, when that happens, it's it's not that pleasant. And so yeah,

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because I mean, most artists, they just want to hear somebody who understands them, and also who

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is not simply trying to sell them something. Because that's what I tell to every single artist, I

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don't I mean, we are at a position and I think you guys are too, where we don't necessarily need to

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try to sell stuff to everybody. We just want to make sure that we are on the very same page, that

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you know what to expect. And also we know what your expectations are. Because if anything happens,

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I don't want you to be resentful or to say, Oh, no, slash told me something, but they are not doing

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it. Like, I don't I don't want this to happen. And usually if there is an artist who says, Hey, I

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have a very limited budget, but I want 5 million streams in like one month. I mean, that's, I would

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never be the type of person who's gonna say, Oh, yeah, I'm gonna take this job. And then let's see

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what happens, because that's always a nightmare. And I even had an and I'm not ashamed to even

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admit that like we even refunded a few artists that we thought that we set up clear expectations,

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but it turned out we didn't. And so instead of just continuing, we just said, Hey, we have done

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some work, we spend some money on ads, but hey, here is your money back. And let me help you find

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the best solution agency person for you, because that's ultimately what the artist was looking for

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anyway. And so I think that's a win for everybody, because you get to keep a person happy, which I

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think is the most important thing. And they also can find something that works for them, because

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De Novo is not going to work for everybody. Noise Life is not going to work for anybody. And so I

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think, yeah, that's definitely key. Yeah.

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I think you're 100% right. Setting expectations is hard. And I think what's interesting is a lot of

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these musicians, they see the what they can now determine to be maybe artificial, you know, get

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50,000 streams for $12 or something like that. But it still comes when they're trying to set what

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their expectations are. Okay, hey, if I spend 500 bucks with, you know, Noise Lash, it's gonna do,

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I'm expecting it. Well, if I can get 50,000 streams for $20 over here, well, then, man, I better get

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200,000 or what is this, you know, you guys are taking me for a ride. And it's interesting when

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sometimes you have to be like, well, look, like, music is sort of like any other business. If I'm

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running a shoe store, I can't expect to spend $40 on a Facebook ad and sell 1000 pairs of shoes,

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like right away. Like, any business is going to require a decent amount of money to get a decent

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amount of attention. Music no different, if anything, it's harder. So this, there's so much

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messaging about how easy the music industry is, if you just have this three step program for $19

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with me, that when they are talking with someone who's trying to set realistic expectations,

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sometimes there's like a little bit of like, butting heads where they expect so much because

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they're being told how easy it is. But that's really not the way like it is. And more power to

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you guys for trying to set the expectations as much you can at the beginning. And if they still

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like, have a problem, then like being willing to refund and still help is so key because there's

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so many other companies that would just go silent, take the money disappear. And that's that. And

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then it's another scam. Right?

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Dude, I the what I want to do is being able to sleep at night. And just knowing that even if I

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mean, we are probably not the best music agency ever. I mean, let's, let's admit that. But yeah,

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we we we have a like a shit ton of really good case studies anyway, but we are probably not the

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best ever. You know, but if I know that we treated artists respectfully, and we didn't try to like,

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sell them the moon and under deliver. I'm good. I mean, I can sleep well at night. I don't need to

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make billions from that. And that's it, man. Yeah, I think if you can find a good balance between

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like trying to put food on your table, but at the same time, being respectful to artists and also

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deliver good results. I mean, that's the best life ever.

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Yeah, I agree. And I think musicians know each other. And if you know, if we were both in here,

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promising the moon and under delivering sooner or later, people are not going to come back and

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work with us. I think a good telltale sign of really any advertising company in or outside of

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music is do folks come back and work with you twice or three times? Because even if it's like,

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okay, hey, look, one time, there's many we've worked with a ton of artists once where maybe

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that's all they wanted one, they just wanted to have a conversation with us get put on the

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right path. And that's it. Others, there are some who want to have a meeting every week,

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and they've worked with us for a year and a half. But being able to find that fit,

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and not pretend like you and I are the we're the most talented music marketers and on the planet.

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Like, if we lead with that, if we lead with I can get you the moon, and then we don't deliver,

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even if it's like if I look, I think I can get you a million streams, if I get you 700,000,

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like, that should that's still a big win. But I set improper expectations. And now you're going

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to be unhappy with me and try to find someone else. So that like repeat customers is a really

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good sign. If you're a musician looking for an agency, or some sort of marketing partner,

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try to figure out how many people work with them repeatedly. Exactly. Not one time. And oh, yeah,

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you know, they said they were going to do this. It was okay. But they were kind of rude. I didn't

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feel respected. They didn't understand me. That all goes into two things outside of just my streams

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went up this many. Yeah, man. I mean, that's probably one of the things that I'm that I'm

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the most proud of because I did the math two weeks ago, 80% of all the artists that we work

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with every month, they've been working with us for at least three or four months. And so to me,

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that's honestly the best feeling ever. Because, I mean, they will be pretty stupid if they came

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back after we did a shit job, you know, right. And so that that probably means that they are

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happy with us. And so even an artist last week sent us feedback saying that, yeah, the

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work was good, blah, blah. But that the thing that he was the happiest about is that we became

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friends. I mean, dude, how can you how can you even beat that? Right? Like that you turn a client

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into a friend. I mean, there is no better business plane ever, in my opinion.

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Yep. What there's a saying that says, it's way easier to turn a client into a friend than it is

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to turn a friend into a client. Well, that's that's probably true. One of the things I've noticed

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with working with musicians, especially as I get a little bit older, because now I'm 31 and I'm like

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super old. But I started when I kind of was making that transition from I'm just a musician to,

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hey, maybe I can help younger musicians. That was like around 2526 for me. And as I've gotten

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older, I think a lot of what musicians value in an agency is feeling understood. And you mentioned

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that I'm wondering how much of like, when you have a consultation, does it feel a little bit

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like a therapy session sometimes, where like, it's almost just like they want to talk to someone

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outside of their friends, who like actually understands what it it's sort of like to be that

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musician. And I feel like a lot of my calls kind of turn into this like vent session where they're

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just kind of venting. And it seems like I'm kind of being like music therapist. I mean, dude,

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we probably live the same life because yeah, I mean, yeah, because I mean, you and I think it's

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like going back to the first thing that we talked about, you can you cannot start a business

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relationship if both parties don't feel understood. And so I mean, I last week, I did a 30 minute call

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and the first 15 minutes was me talking about the new guitar that I bought.

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Right. Yeah. Yeah, I think that is really important. Because it's almost like if I'm

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or I'm trying to find a good example where like if I'm trying to if I'm selling marketing services,

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and I'm working with a company who's only ever done construction work, like even there's just

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like a little bit of a disconnect or like a learning period where almost like if we understand

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we each somewhat know where each other is at, that learning period is much shorter, we can get

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right into the business and kind of right into the ideating, not the learning about each other,

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trying to determine if this is going to be a good fit. Like, once you can hit the ground running,

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it's a big difference. And I, and especially with musicians who often think that, you know,

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I was in this boat as well, where I thought I was, you know, unique, and like my music is different

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than everybody else's and all this stuff. And like, so you almost have this wall where your

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you identify as being hard to understand. You know, because I'm different, I'm an artist,

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there's not many of us around, you know, my friends don't really get me, there's no way this

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marketing guy is going to get me. And then all of a sudden, you have a conversation about a guitar

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for 15 minutes, and you're kind of like, oh, okay, this guy kind of does, we do get each other. Okay,

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good. And you kind of take that layer of defense, especially because like, if you've been scammed

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before, you fell for some marketing thing, sometimes you have your defenses up. If you

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can get those defenses down and just ideate and brainstorm, that's where the good ideas come from,

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not when you're playing defense. Yeah, I think Seth Godin has the best quote,

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which is somewhere along the lines of people like us do things like us.

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Right, right. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah.

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Are most of your clients based in the US? Or do you work mostly with artists in the in Europe?

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Yeah, no, man, I would say it's 90% artists from the US and Canada. And it's weird, man, like,

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I didn't voluntarily decided that I was just going to work with people from

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the US. But when I started Noiseless, I just said, since I've always been a kind of guy who

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likes to meet a bunch of people. And even five years ago, I had a lot of friends

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online from the US, Canada. And so I just thought, let me just go there. And it's also one of the

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biggest markets anyway. Yeah. Even though Europe is an amazing market, both for touring, both for

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selling merch, both for pretty much everything. But I just said, let me start there. And then

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eventually, maybe I will find a way to also come back home and do some stuff here, which I started

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doing like five, six months ago, I started doing a bit more work here in Europe and also here in

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Italy. But it's still mostly from the US anyway. Yeah. Sure. Are there any, like, very noticeable

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differences between an artist in the US and, say, Italy or the UK or something? Or is it kind of

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one of those things where like a musician from anywhere knows what it's like to be a musician,

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whether you're from New Zealand or UK or Chicago? Yeah, no, man, I think when you're talking about,

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like, sort of, I don't want to say first world countries because it sounds like

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sort of demeaning towards other countries, but I would say, yeah, but I would say like the top

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English countries, okay? Sure. It's a very common ground for pretty much every artist. I think if

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you are talking of maybe the music scene in Central Africa, maybe, then it's probably different.

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But when you're talking about artists in Italy, in the US, in the UK, I think they all experience

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the same thing, honestly. They just want a bigger fan base and they just want to live off of music.

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That's pretty much it. I mean, that's the common ground and I don't see

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many differences, honestly. That's a really good point. I think it is like that common ground

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is if even if, you know, if somebody's speaking broken English, like you might be able to connect

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over the guitar and kind of just play a little bit and find that common ground.

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Now, more than ever, the audience for musicians is a worldwide audience and as musicians can't

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really be nitpicky and choose where you happen to grow a fan base. Nowadays, it is very likely

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that you could have fans that love your music in Mexico City or, you know, rap is very popular

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in Germany. So it's not unheard of to have an audience somewhere else in the world that you

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might not have considered trying to market to. So now we're going to talk a little bit about

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Giovanni's specific marketing strategies and the tools he uses to market to this worldwide audience.

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Do you find that, say, if you are working with artists in different parts of the world,

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or say their audiences are in different parts of the world, do you find that like for whatever

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reason, hey, Facebook ads work way better in France than they do in the U.S., don't know why,

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or is that also kind of across the board where like it is what it is?

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Yeah, that's something that I've noticed so many freaking times that when we work with an artist

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who have a really specific audience, say, just in Italy, just in Germany, sometimes it's harder.

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I'm not entirely sure why. When it comes to Facebook ads, it's probably because the pool

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of people is not that big. And so there is not so much data that Facebook basically can tap in and

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find the people who are more likely to convert. And so I think when you are trying to appeal to

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an audience in a very specific region or country, I think you need to be extremely specific.

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Like, for instance, we are now working with an artist from France, and he just wants to

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basically focus on France. And I mean, yeah, we are finding it difficult, honestly. We are

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having issues finding like a really good cost per conversion, cost per take, blah, blah.

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And I think it really comes down to the type of content that you put out there, because

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I think when it comes to like a specific country or market, I think what really works is if you can,

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you need to be really good at creating the connection between you and the audience.

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So having like a specific interaction for people in France, having the, I don't know,

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France flag on your video as an emoji, for instance, like all these things can eventually

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help you to get closer to the audience, which is something that I haven't seen sort of being

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necessary when you appeal to a worldwide audience or to like 10, 15 countries. And so, yeah.

379
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Yeah. Yeah. Well, that makes a lot of sense. I mean, even in the States, you know,

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the market in New York might, like they might have a totally different sense of humor than the

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market in Tennessee. So even like, like you said, you know, the content is going to kind of match

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who you're aiming at. And if I'm over here, and I just think I might have fans in France, but I'm

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using a video that's really aimed at people in Nashville, it's probably not going to play well.

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So you have to know what, or at least have an idea as to what you think the audience is looking

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for in each market. And then kind of like, initially start out with an experiment where

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say you AB test a couple pieces of content to like, affirm or deny your assumption at the beginning.

387
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Wow, content, this video worked a lot better because it had the flag in it. And these other

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things like this one's working better. Now we can, instead of doing both, we can go more all in

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on the one that we are seeing work. And at the, I'm wondering like, at the beginning of like,

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say trying to break into a new market, do you approach it with, like when you're trying to set

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that expectation, do you do it in a way where it's like, Hey, look, I think we're going to be around

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this ballpark. Or do you come right out and say like, we've never promoted in this market

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specifically. We don't necessarily know how much it's going to cost. The first challenge

394
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we're going to have together is determining what these costs are going to be. Yeah. So this is

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something that we haven't experienced as many times for me to now start saying, Hey, just know

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that because you are going to focus just on this country, for instance, we are more likely to

397
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not get like super good results in the first week. So to be completely honest with you,

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that's something that we will start doing right now, because that's probably the third or fourth

399
00:38:55,340 --> 00:39:03,020
time that we experienced something like that. And if that happens once or maybe twice, you just think,

400
00:39:03,020 --> 00:39:10,460
Oh, that's maybe a coincidence. But when it's the fourth, fifth time, then I mean, that's also one of

401
00:39:10,460 --> 00:39:16,860
the best parts of like having an agency and working with so many artists, because what you can also

402
00:39:16,860 --> 00:39:23,020
bring to the table is the experience needed to make really good decisions based on the artist's goal.

403
00:39:24,140 --> 00:39:29,980
And so that's something that we are, I mean, we are constantly learning, we are constantly

404
00:39:30,060 --> 00:39:36,220
trying new stuff, understanding what can work for an artist in a specific market with some different

405
00:39:36,220 --> 00:39:44,060
content in different genre. And so yeah, that's just another thing in our tool bag, I guess.

406
00:39:44,700 --> 00:39:50,380
Yeah. And the more tools, the better, because you never know what little tool might apply to a very

407
00:39:50,380 --> 00:39:56,060
specific situation. And having the tools in the first place, because you know what it's like to

408
00:39:57,020 --> 00:40:03,500
be a musician is very valuable. Now, I want to talk to you a little bit about smart noise,

409
00:40:04,060 --> 00:40:11,980
because it seems like a really good way to like have more juice behind general like pre save

410
00:40:11,980 --> 00:40:19,580
campaigns. Generally, I tell artists to not put a ton of money into a pre release campaign,

411
00:40:19,580 --> 00:40:27,020
because it's hard to convince Joe, you know, average listener guy, that hey, here's a quick

412
00:40:27,020 --> 00:40:33,900
snippet. Remember me in two weeks. Thanks. So that's really tough. Like if now like I always say like,

413
00:40:33,900 --> 00:40:40,940
you know, if Harry Styles posted on Instagram and said new single coming out April 10, pre save it

414
00:40:40,940 --> 00:40:47,740
here, you got millions of people who already know they like Harry Styles, that they know they're

415
00:40:47,740 --> 00:40:51,580
interested in what's coming, they're going to save because they've already put in the work to

416
00:40:51,580 --> 00:40:59,180
become a fan of this person. Now, if my name is Terry wild, and I'm a new artist, and I'm putting

417
00:40:59,180 --> 00:41:03,500
money behind a campaign that says, Hey, I'm a new artist, you've never heard of, but I have a new

418
00:41:03,500 --> 00:41:10,300
song coming out, you should save it. Like that to me sounds like really ineffective. But with your

419
00:41:11,020 --> 00:41:20,780
new technology, my understanding is, when they pre save one song, it triggers this sequence of

420
00:41:20,780 --> 00:41:25,500
events where the next song that comes out for pre release will automatically be saved to their

421
00:41:25,500 --> 00:41:32,140
library. Is that correct? Yeah, so this is something that I tell every single artist when they say,

422
00:41:32,460 --> 00:41:39,900
I want to run a pre save campaign. And I, and I asked them, how many times have you ever pre

423
00:41:39,900 --> 00:41:45,340
saved a release? And they go, actually, never, never. Here you go. Because most people don't

424
00:41:45,340 --> 00:41:51,740
give a shit. Period. They just don't care unless you are Beyonce, as you know, Justin Bieber,

425
00:41:51,740 --> 00:41:59,020
whatever. Right. I'm already a fan of you. Exactly. And I've never been a fan of pre saves. And I think

426
00:41:59,740 --> 00:42:06,300
the piece that is missing right now for most artists is understanding that when you want to

427
00:42:06,300 --> 00:42:13,660
run a pre save campaign, you don't have to run a Spotify pre save campaign. What you're doing is,

428
00:42:14,700 --> 00:42:22,780
is basically growing your list of more sort of intimate fans. And when you are just

429
00:42:23,340 --> 00:42:28,780
going out there and saying, Hey, I have this new song, go out and pre save it. Again,

430
00:42:28,780 --> 00:42:34,540
most people don't give a shit. And so what I think can can work really well is to basically

431
00:42:34,540 --> 00:42:40,940
find something that even a stranger can find valuable. So you can give away

432
00:42:42,140 --> 00:42:50,540
merch, discounts, you can give away VIP tickets, whatever. And so that's the first point. And no

433
00:42:50,540 --> 00:42:59,180
matter if you do the classic pre saves or the stuff that we have done, which we have called

434
00:42:59,180 --> 00:43:05,580
lifetime pre saves, where basically when a fan pre saves once, all the future releases will be

435
00:43:05,580 --> 00:43:11,580
added to their library without the artist doing anything. And it also Sparanoid sends them an

436
00:43:11,580 --> 00:43:18,220
email on release day automatically. And so we just basically thought, Hey, we think that pre saves suck.

437
00:43:18,380 --> 00:43:26,940
And we think this way is actually a little bit better. So you may do it and sort of try that too.

438
00:43:28,620 --> 00:43:36,380
And I think that's really important because for instance, and this is just one random example,

439
00:43:36,380 --> 00:43:44,620
but there was this artist who two weeks ago got a video on TikTok viral. And like every artist that

440
00:43:45,580 --> 00:43:53,020
goes viral on TikTok, they do, hey, pre save it, blah, blah, blah. But if she would have used

441
00:43:54,060 --> 00:44:01,180
classic pre save page, she would have lost all pre saves because she was using Sparanoid. She

442
00:44:01,180 --> 00:44:07,900
now has 8,000 pre saves on every single song that will come out from now on. That's awesome. Yeah.

443
00:44:07,900 --> 00:44:14,300
Now, is that something that you had to like, contact Spotify or something and be like, is this,

444
00:44:14,300 --> 00:44:20,700
are we allowed to do this? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we, I mean, we had to wait six months for the Spotify

445
00:44:20,700 --> 00:44:27,420
team to add, to actually go through not just the lifetime pre save page, but to make sure that

446
00:44:27,420 --> 00:44:34,060
within our entire application, we were following the Spotify guidelines. Like for instance,

447
00:44:34,060 --> 00:44:41,500
you cannot crop a Spotify artwork. You need like, you need to have the like full picture. And we

448
00:44:41,500 --> 00:44:49,660
like in like March last year, we had like a six pixel border on the like Spotify artwork. We

449
00:44:49,660 --> 00:44:57,740
couldn't do that. And you can't, you can't have the Spotify. Now when you link to a song or to

450
00:44:57,740 --> 00:45:04,140
an artist within the application, you need to have Spotify logo that says play on Spotify.

451
00:45:04,140 --> 00:45:11,420
And so it wasn't just for the pre save thing. It was for everything that was like inside the

452
00:45:12,460 --> 00:45:18,860
the app. But, but I mean, it's pretty much the same sort of backend process as any other

453
00:45:18,860 --> 00:45:26,460
platform, honestly, like link fire tone, then feature FM, whatever. It's just that we added

454
00:45:26,460 --> 00:45:33,500
this sort of part where the fan don't need to go through the same process every time.

455
00:45:33,500 --> 00:45:38,700
Yeah. Well, I think that's really interesting to have, you know, those conversations with Spotify

456
00:45:39,500 --> 00:45:45,900
and figure out, you know, how do I play along with you guys? And what was the most random

457
00:45:46,700 --> 00:45:51,900
change that they asked you to make that you're like, Oh, that's okay. But I didn't even think

458
00:45:51,900 --> 00:46:02,140
of that. Yeah, yeah. As I said, we had the like, like a four pixel border on the Spotify artworks

459
00:46:02,140 --> 00:46:08,940
that we were displaying on the dashboard basically. And they told us, no, no. Yeah.

460
00:46:08,940 --> 00:46:15,740
Yeah. So square borders, no round stuff. And so I thought that was pretty,

461
00:46:16,860 --> 00:46:23,580
I mean, that's okay. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. But I guess it's one of those things where

462
00:46:24,220 --> 00:46:29,820
I'm sure they're thinking like, okay, well, if we approve it for these guys, then someone else

463
00:46:30,140 --> 00:46:33,260
and it just triggers that domino where they're like, nope, these are the rules. You have to do

464
00:46:33,260 --> 00:46:40,780
it. If you don't want to play ball, then goodbye. Yeah. But to be completely honest, I was somehow

465
00:46:40,780 --> 00:46:47,260
happy that we had to go through this whole process because that also means that if other

466
00:46:47,260 --> 00:46:56,140
people want to do the same thing, the bar is set extremely high. And so I was sort of, okay, that's

467
00:46:56,140 --> 00:47:01,900
a pain in the ass, but at the same time, it also means that it's going to be hard for other people

468
00:47:01,900 --> 00:47:07,980
to do the same thing as well. Yep. So a tougher barrier of entry. And now you have somewhat of

469
00:47:07,980 --> 00:47:13,980
a relationship with a team at Spotify and that's valuable. Yeah, exactly. Well, I'm thinking that,

470
00:47:15,340 --> 00:47:23,180
so say like, if I'm setting up an ad campaign for an artist, I might have like a general like brand

471
00:47:23,180 --> 00:47:29,260
awareness campaign as my primary campaign. But then say if that's a video or if somebody ends up

472
00:47:29,260 --> 00:47:35,020
following the page, then if you follow the page or have watched, you know, 40% of this video,

473
00:47:35,020 --> 00:47:41,260
run the campaign to say, Hey, you are interested in my new stuff. Here's the pre save. Because then

474
00:47:41,260 --> 00:47:45,980
you can kind of limit it down to like, I got you somewhat interested, you checked out my page,

475
00:47:45,980 --> 00:47:51,340
here's my offer. Or have you been seeing great results with just like right out of the gate,

476
00:47:51,340 --> 00:48:01,340
run this at new folks? Yeah, no, I think the warmer the audience, the less of an offer you

477
00:48:01,340 --> 00:48:09,820
have to make them. So if you if they are fans who have been following you for like five years,

478
00:48:09,820 --> 00:48:14,700
you might have to just tell them, Hey, there is this new song, go and pre save because they

479
00:48:14,700 --> 00:48:21,660
probably care. But 99% of people like mostly called audiences, you have to find something

480
00:48:21,660 --> 00:48:28,060
that is going to appeal to people who never heard of you. And so this is go back to us saying,

481
00:48:28,060 --> 00:48:35,180
if you just say, go and pre save it, they just don't care. And so yeah, it just depends on the

482
00:48:35,180 --> 00:48:42,860
level of the sort of intimacy that these sort of audiences have with you. I think this is really

483
00:48:42,860 --> 00:48:49,500
cool tool. And it's it's like operating. Is it at full speed right now? Could a bunch of

484
00:48:49,500 --> 00:48:53,820
artists go sign up? Or is it still kind of like, is it an invite only kind of tool at the moment?

485
00:48:54,380 --> 00:49:01,820
No, it's, it's sort of invite only, quote unquote, just for labels, agencies, because

486
00:49:02,780 --> 00:49:09,500
it's going to be eventually more of like a B2B type platform that is going to be more

487
00:49:10,140 --> 00:49:16,780
appealed to, yeah, to just music professionals, music companies. But now, yeah, that is a free

488
00:49:16,780 --> 00:49:23,260
trial, no payment method required. So you can just, you can just play with it. Yeah.

489
00:49:23,260 --> 00:49:31,900
Awesome. Have you had any musicians who have signed up for this that you were like, Whoa,

490
00:49:31,900 --> 00:49:35,340
this person is using it. Like, maybe that's was a non client.

491
00:49:37,580 --> 00:49:46,940
I mean, not like huge, huge, huge artists, but some pretty big artists, for sure. But what's even more

492
00:49:47,500 --> 00:49:54,220
exciting is that we are in the talks with one of the biggest record label in the world. And so

493
00:49:55,180 --> 00:49:59,740
I can't say the name, unfortunately, but I'm honestly super excited about that.

494
00:50:00,700 --> 00:50:07,100
Because yeah, they have a roster of like amazing artists. And so I am hoping that we can be that

495
00:50:07,100 --> 00:50:12,460
really good relationship with them. And eventually something good would come out of it. Yeah.

496
00:50:12,460 --> 00:50:15,580
Yeah. Is that what the possible US trip is all about?

497
00:50:16,220 --> 00:50:17,260
I mean, maybe, yeah.

498
00:50:17,260 --> 00:50:25,340
Maybe. Can neither affirm or deny. Well, I'm really excited to see what happens here with

499
00:50:25,740 --> 00:50:33,020
Smart Noise. I think it's a really cool piece of tech that musicians can use again and again,

500
00:50:33,020 --> 00:50:39,180
almost like make this their go to link tree in a way where it's just like, sign up for all my

501
00:50:39,180 --> 00:50:44,380
pre saves right here. Boom. It's really cool. I'm excited to see where it goes. And if you do come

502
00:50:44,380 --> 00:50:49,020
stateside, and if you make it anywhere near North Carolina, let's have lunch or something on the

503
00:50:49,020 --> 00:50:54,780
house. Oh, yeah, absolutely, man. We should definitely meet you and Mark.

504
00:50:55,420 --> 00:50:57,500
Yeah, we should. We should definitely hang out.

505
00:50:58,460 --> 00:51:01,980
Well, Geo, I really appreciate you coming on and doing this with me.

506
00:51:02,700 --> 00:51:06,220
It was great talking with you. Is there anything that I didn't ask you that you want

507
00:51:06,220 --> 00:51:07,900
some of these listeners to know?

508
00:51:07,900 --> 00:51:14,540
No, man, I think we cover a lot of interesting stuff. I think we should just keep doing

509
00:51:14,540 --> 00:51:17,420
honest, transparent, good work. And that's it.

510
00:51:18,220 --> 00:51:21,820
Absolutely. Well, if you're a musician looking for a marketing company,

511
00:51:21,900 --> 00:51:26,860
check out Smart Noise, check out Noise Lash, and they got some great tools for musicians.

512
00:51:26,860 --> 00:51:30,300
And Geo, thank you very much for joining me. I hope to talk to you soon.

513
00:51:30,300 --> 00:51:34,620
Thanks a lot, man. And check the Nova too. They're really cool guys.

514
00:51:36,780 --> 00:51:42,860
My takeaway from speaking with Giovanni is, you know, he's worked with a ton of musicians.

515
00:51:42,860 --> 00:51:48,060
I've worked with a ton of different musicians. We have worked with them often in different ways,

516
00:51:48,060 --> 00:51:54,140
but trying to accomplish some of the same goals. And both of us have found success

517
00:51:54,860 --> 00:52:01,500
in being transparent with the musicians. The music industry is full of so many people telling

518
00:52:01,500 --> 00:52:08,620
musicians how easy it is to, you know, install some sort of one, two, three system or take some

519
00:52:08,620 --> 00:52:14,620
sort of 10 step course. And what do you know, you'll go viral by next Wednesday. And there's

520
00:52:14,620 --> 00:52:20,540
so much of that noise that the transparent truth of a marketer saying, Hey, this isn't

521
00:52:20,540 --> 00:52:23,980
going to be easy. It's going to take a while. It's going to take some money and we're going

522
00:52:23,980 --> 00:52:30,380
to need to find what works best for you. That is the truth. And that is being transparent.

523
00:52:30,380 --> 00:52:36,460
It's not the sexiest way of selling the service, but the musicians who have been led astray by

524
00:52:36,460 --> 00:52:43,100
somebody who told them how easy it was or by joining some sort of $5,000 master class that they

525
00:52:43,100 --> 00:52:48,620
conquer the music business by next week. The people who have been led astray and something

526
00:52:48,620 --> 00:52:56,060
like that really respect the transparency that does it for this episode of the cut in through

527
00:52:56,060 --> 00:53:02,220
podcast. My name is Elliott Townsley. Thank you so much for tuning in and supporting the show.

528
00:53:02,780 --> 00:53:09,260
Believe it or not, aside from sending me money, the best way that you can support the show is by

529
00:53:09,260 --> 00:53:16,700
subscribing and rating the podcast on your favorite streaming platform. My name is Elliott

530
00:53:16,700 --> 00:53:22,540
Townsley. You can find me on Instagram at Elliott.Towsley or check out my company,

531
00:53:22,540 --> 00:53:28,300
de novo agency, where we can help entertainers and music businesses promote themselves online.

532
00:53:28,300 --> 00:53:34,060
This has been the cut in through podcast. Don't forget to subscribe and we will see you next time.

533
00:53:39,260 --> 00:53:39,900
you