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I want to make the point here.

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That's another great piece of like advice

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and leadership with artists is just like being like,

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no, that's not actually the best way to spend that money.

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Like if it's only going to be that, you might as well not.

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Like you should invest it in this other thing.

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That's not like really your job as producer,

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but like, I mean, it could be, you know,

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it could definitely provide value to an artist.

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I would like to know if I'm about to waste some money

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and someone I trust is like, yeah,

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I probably wouldn't like do that, you know.

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What's going on everybody?

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This is the Cutting Through podcast

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where we help entrepreneurs and entertainers

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cut through the noise and more importantly,

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cut through the bullshit that they see online.

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My name is Elliot Towsley and I am your host.

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All right, y'all.

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Well, if you have a question, just let me know in the chat

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and we'll unmute you here

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and just have you come on and ask real quick

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and we'll be mindful of Elliot's time.

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Well, Nick's asking a great question.

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I forgot, I didn't touch on budget.

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I think it tastes first.

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Oh, okay, I'm sorry.

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Sorry, Atai.

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Would you recommend having a target audience

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as Facebook support suggested not to have one,

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a target audience?

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Atai, let's pull you on so you can ask.

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Sorry about that, hi everybody.

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I ran some ads for some of my own music last year

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and I was talking to Facebook support

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out of their own initiative.

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They ran me up and offered support

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and they said to me, you shouldn't really have,

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if you're running ads,

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you shouldn't really have any target audience, you know,

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apart from maybe like countries and you know, an age group,

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but no interests.

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That was the point.

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I know I'm kind of jumping ahead a bit,

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but you know, as you're here,

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I thought it might be a good chance to ask that.

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Yeah.

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That's interesting.

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I would say, I would, I definitely disagree.

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Cause okay.

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They're trying to give them to spend more.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, just keep spinning.

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We'll find the audience.

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Cause I have heard, I have heard that it's like

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with big ad budgets, they're based.

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Some of it is like, yo, just put it out there.

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Our algorithm will find who will be engaged.

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It's like, yeah, no, that's true.

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It is, it is very complex and it can, it can find people.

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It's pretty sick.

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However, that's a way more expensive way to do it.

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Yeah.

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So I think to a degree, it's not like they're lying.

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I think Daniel's point is correct.

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If you can afford to spend 15 or 20 grand a month on ads

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and you're okay, let's go on autopilot.

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And when they're doing that learning for the,

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like the algorithm can't scan your ad in one day and go,

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we're going to put it over here.

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It takes time to learn.

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And it takes money to, to run the ad during that time.

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I would definitely advise against that,

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especially for music where like, if like, so, okay,

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like if Facebook is saying no targeting at all,

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like, are you going to run this ad in Brazil

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where they don't speak English?

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So I think you don't need to have it come

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your target audience completely refined

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where you know exactly where you're going after,

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but kind of just like letting them do it.

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I think you would save money and be two stages ahead.

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If you already have information that, hey, well,

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Instagram is telling me that my audience is in California

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and it's mostly guys in their twenties.

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Like we don't need to let Facebook learn that.

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We can tell it that, and it might save it two weeks worth

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of wasting time or money.

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But the, the, the idea that their algorithm does learn

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and kind of does take it over to a degree later on is true.

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Okay.

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No problem.

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Thanks.

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I just wanted to hear your opinion.

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Awesome. Thank you.

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Yeah.

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Great question.

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Yeah.

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All right, Mr. Nick,

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what could be a great monthly ad budget

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for an artist that is a beginner?

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I get this question a lot.

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I think the real, the right answer is there's no right answer.

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Oh, everyone should spend a thousand dollars,

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no matter what.

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There isn't a number that like I have for everybody to spend.

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I do think it's important to be consistent,

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at least for some time.

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It might be hard to commit to $500 every month for the year,

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but let's say, hey, this summer I saved up three grand.

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What do I do?

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I would so much rather spend $600 for five months in a row

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than like throw two 2,500 bucks at an ad

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when I kind of don't really know what I'm doing

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and I'm hoping for the best.

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And so something that is consistent is really the key part.

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Cause like Daniel said, a lot of people,

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a lot of the problem is they stop too soon.

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So, but I mean-

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What can you afford to lose?

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Yeah.

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What can you stomach losing

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if that's only a couple of bucks a day?

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And I'm sure there's like a flipping point where it's like,

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well, if it's only 50 cents, then maybe it's not worth it.

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Cause that's not even enough to get a conversion.

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You know, that's going to depend on the campaign, obviously.

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It's cheaper to get somebody to just see the ad

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than it is to like click through and buy something.

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Yeah.

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So that'd be the conversion cost.

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But yeah, I mean, whatever you can lose basically,

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whatever you're okay losing.

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Yeah, there is a point there, Facebook ads,

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it seems like there's kind of like stages

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where it's almost like if you're under $5,000 a month,

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if you're anywhere between zero and $5,000,

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like the amount of money you put into it

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doesn't really change the way the campaign is run.

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It kind of just gives you a little bit more.

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But then there's kind of like that next level

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where it's like in between 10 and 20 K a month,

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where it's kind of like a different level.

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And then there's like, you know,

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the people who are spending big, big money that

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it's almost like a different experience.

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Just that if you have that much money,

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if you have 50 grand a month to spend on ads,

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you can afford to 10% of that can be a complete experiment

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where you're okay with swinging to miss them the whole time.

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But I would say like a decent,

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if you have less than $300 for the month, $10 a day,

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I would probably put that money into making better content

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than the ads.

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I think 300 would probably be like the base level

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where you see something going, hey, okay,

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I got a few, I got 50 followers, I got a lot more comments.

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Okay, it's moving.

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But anything under that $10 per day, it's hard to see.

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And then you kind of just go, is this doing anything?

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So, I don't know.

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So slow, yeah, that's a good point.

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That's another just like,

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and this opens up a whole nother can of worms,

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but like, I wanna make the point here.

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That's another great piece of like advice and leadership

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with artists is just like being like,

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no, that's not actually the best way to spend that money.

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Like if it's only gonna be that, you might as well not.

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Like you should invest it in this other thing, you know?

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That's not like really your job as a producer,

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but like, I mean, it could be, you know?

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It could definitely provide value to an artist.

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I would like to know if I'm about to waste some money

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and someone I trust is like,

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yeah, I probably wouldn't like do that, you know?

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Any other questions, y'all?

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I can kind of speak on that.

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I don't know if you need-

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Oh yeah, let's go, Betty.

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I used to promote some of my like Instagram videos,

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probably spend like a couple hundred bucks

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over a few months, just nothing, you know?

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It was garbage, because my video quality was not awesome.

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Fast forward like six months later, got a better camera,

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made it a little bit better content, 200,000 views for free.

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You know, and I literally haven't spent a dollar

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on advertising since then, because it's like,

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oh, just like I have to just make stuff

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that people wanna engage in and like reels,

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there's still the algorithms crazy.

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So yeah, until I have like something big to market,

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I don't even think about spending money on it.

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A lot of people can't crack that code.

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So they're using the ad dollars to compensate for it.

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You might not always have to be paying to market.

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If you're getting a ton of organic traction, then great.

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With your case, like then it's just kind of like,

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hey, if you really wanna speed this up,

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the dollars can kind of make this a little bit bigger.

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But if you're not getting some sort of like initial push,

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it's hard to compensate for that with advertising.

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Because even if that video you have that you just said,

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hey, Instagram or TikTok, I want to promote this video

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that's already doing well.

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Like it knows who has engaged with it, who's watched it.

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It is way ahead of the game of knowing where to serve

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that ad if you were to turn it on.

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And so that's another, like a great example

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of just doubling down on what works best.

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Last month, I posted 15 videos and wow, holy shit,

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this one got 200,000 views.

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What should I do this month?

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Well, promote the one that everyone seems to like.

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And it's one thing I was just thinking about

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when you were talking about that,

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it's kind of similar to Daniel's

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where his YouTube content is not what he's selling.

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He's using YouTube content to generate trust and awareness

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so that you might consider the other thing

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that he's selling.

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Same with the musician.

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If you're selling the music,

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it's hard to just get me to listen to you with the music,

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unless it's like an amazing solo

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or somebody shares it with me.

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But in terms of like a marketing message

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from someone I don't know,

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like your message, what you market,

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like the video that you made that just was engaging

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200,000 hits or whatever,

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probably wasn't necessarily what you're selling,

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but it's getting eyes and ears that are now looking at you.

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That secondary message could be,

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hey, now that you're looking at me, by the way, here's this.

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I think this is too why like,

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you'll see a lot of, no, no, so artists,

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it could be a lot of different people

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like engaging in the drama stuff, like celebrities.

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So it's sort of that, it's like,

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I know there's people that like my mom have talked about,

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I'm just like, how do you even know who that is?

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Like, oh, I heard they said this thing about that,

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it's like kind of silly, but like,

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I don't know that that would be the example

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of top of funnel content

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I'd be recommending to your clients,

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but just as an example of something that like,

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I think that's probably why some of those artists

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like get into that stuff,

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because they're like, I don't care,

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I just want people like to be talking about me

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and know my, because that does directly result

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in more streams, you know,

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unless it flips over that fence

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to maybe where it's controversial and, you know,

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does the opposite effect, but up until that point,

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I'm wondering if that's kind of why you see

259
00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:07,160
some of that stuff, you know?

260
00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:11,200
Ties another question, for music as,

261
00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:14,020
did you use a landing page?

262
00:11:14,020 --> 00:11:18,440
Did you use any platform like toned in or hyped it

263
00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:20,000
or make your own?

264
00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:21,040
Good question.

265
00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:26,000
I do like landing pages to a degree.

266
00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:28,880
From a marketing perspective,

267
00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:30,560
I do like it because you can put things

268
00:11:30,560 --> 00:11:34,280
like your Facebook pixel in them or your Google analytics.

269
00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:37,760
So you can start to build that retargeting audience

270
00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:41,520
where if you don't have your own website,

271
00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:44,440
I think it's debatable at what stage does a musician

272
00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:45,640
really need a website,

273
00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:48,160
I think is an interesting conversation,

274
00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:50,960
but like something like toned in or Linktree

275
00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:53,440
or anything like that is a good way to kind of like,

276
00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:58,440
not only have all of the platforms available where if,

277
00:11:58,560 --> 00:12:01,720
for example, like if you're just promoting your Spotify link,

278
00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:03,920
well, what about the person who might've been interested

279
00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:05,760
who has Apple music?

280
00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:09,280
So I do think that toned in and landing pages like that

281
00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:12,040
have some value, but the biggest in my opinion

282
00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:15,000
would be that pixel so that like Facebook knows,

283
00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,960
hey, this person went to your landing page,

284
00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:20,120
we should hit them with a different ad.

285
00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:20,960
And-

286
00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:22,080
Do you wanna quickly explain for those who don't know

287
00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:23,360
what we're talking about?

288
00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:27,080
Yeah, so a pixel is just a fancy word for a line of code

289
00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:29,400
that Facebook has that you can put in,

290
00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:32,560
blindly put into a website or a landing page.

291
00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:36,860
And all it does is essentially collect information

292
00:12:36,860 --> 00:12:39,180
about who's been to that page

293
00:12:39,180 --> 00:12:42,400
so that the next time that person's on Facebook,

294
00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:44,680
Facebook knows that they've been to your website

295
00:12:44,680 --> 00:12:46,680
and they can serve them with your ad

296
00:12:46,680 --> 00:12:49,360
is essentially what it is.

297
00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:50,840
It's Google Analytics.

298
00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,440
If what you're in your mind, what Google Analytics is,

299
00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:54,840
that's what Facebook pixel is.

300
00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:55,680
It just allows-

301
00:12:55,680 --> 00:12:57,600
You probably searched for something on Amazon,

302
00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:00,160
didn't buy it, and then you go, you're reading some blog

303
00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:03,440
and you're like, oh, there's that air fryer again.

304
00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:04,280
Right.

305
00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:07,240
So pixels are important,

306
00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:10,200
especially because at this top of the funnel,

307
00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:11,960
when someone might just say, who is this guy?

308
00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:13,860
Click on your profile real quick,

309
00:13:13,860 --> 00:13:16,040
or maybe they take it a step further

310
00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:17,920
and they do check out your Linktree.

311
00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:20,180
Maybe they don't leave and go to Spotify right away,

312
00:13:20,180 --> 00:13:24,720
but someone who's seen your video, gone to your Linktree

313
00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:28,800
is much further down this funnel than someone who hasn't.

314
00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:32,040
So there is value there of at least collecting that data

315
00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:36,440
and collecting that audience of retargeters.

316
00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:38,160
All right, y'all.

317
00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,720
So,

318
00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:01,100
yeah, this is great.

319
00:14:01,100 --> 00:14:02,520
This is a great question.

320
00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:05,240
Share a personal experience of a successful ad campaign

321
00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:07,240
or maybe some cool story with a client

322
00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:09,560
or something that happened, yeah.

323
00:14:09,560 --> 00:14:11,680
The first story that came to mind is I have a client

324
00:14:11,680 --> 00:14:15,040
who came to me some years ago when he was like,

325
00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:16,460
not quite just getting started,

326
00:14:16,460 --> 00:14:19,880
but like still in the beginning phase.

327
00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:24,880
And he was setting up like some sort of paid feature

328
00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:30,040
with Twista, the artist from back in the day.

329
00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:31,600
And he was like, what should I do with this?

330
00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:36,460
And I was just like, well, you shouldn't just have

331
00:14:36,460 --> 00:14:37,480
like if you're paying for this,

332
00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:39,680
like whatever you're paying, pay a little bit more

333
00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:41,700
to have him do a lot of content with you

334
00:14:41,700 --> 00:14:44,940
and to have him be like a partner in promoting this.

335
00:14:44,940 --> 00:14:48,220
Because if I'm just Joe Nobody,

336
00:14:48,220 --> 00:14:50,540
even if I have a big artist on the song,

337
00:14:50,540 --> 00:14:54,060
it's still now on me to promote that message

338
00:14:54,060 --> 00:14:55,900
that I have this artist on it.

339
00:14:55,900 --> 00:14:58,200
Whereas if that artist shared it on his Twitter

340
00:14:58,200 --> 00:14:59,980
or shared it on Instagram a few times,

341
00:14:59,980 --> 00:15:03,420
holy shit, that's worth how much money in Instagram ads.

342
00:15:03,420 --> 00:15:06,980
So I got him, he like paid more

343
00:15:06,980 --> 00:15:08,460
and it was all paid to play or whatever,

344
00:15:08,460 --> 00:15:13,000
but they did some like collab reels slash videos

345
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,860
to promote the fact that they did this song together.

346
00:15:15,860 --> 00:15:17,660
And it did like really, really well to the point

347
00:15:17,660 --> 00:15:20,740
where Twista invited this dude like on tour

348
00:15:20,740 --> 00:15:23,860
and like now they like do a bunch of shit together.

349
00:15:23,860 --> 00:15:28,860
So they did some interesting like collab content

350
00:15:29,700 --> 00:15:31,620
where it wasn't just like, hey, what's up?

351
00:15:31,620 --> 00:15:33,220
I have a song with Twista, go check it out.

352
00:15:34,060 --> 00:15:36,340
Like they were like in the studio actively.

353
00:15:36,340 --> 00:15:38,340
They made like the audience feel like they were like

354
00:15:38,340 --> 00:15:41,460
a part of the song or being made.

355
00:15:41,460 --> 00:15:43,820
And it wasn't just like, hey, I'm another artist

356
00:15:43,820 --> 00:15:46,380
with Twista, check me out.

357
00:15:47,460 --> 00:15:48,860
I don't know, that's not the best example,

358
00:15:48,860 --> 00:15:52,420
but just the idea that like you can like,

359
00:15:52,420 --> 00:15:55,480
marketing doesn't have to be all about the selling.

360
00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,060
Right now, the goal is to get eyeballs.

361
00:15:58,060 --> 00:16:01,580
And like, if we replace the word,

362
00:16:01,580 --> 00:16:03,180
like I gotta market myself,

363
00:16:03,180 --> 00:16:07,220
like if you're making good content and it's getting traction,

364
00:16:07,220 --> 00:16:09,500
the easiest marketing move is to get,

365
00:16:09,500 --> 00:16:11,860
is to pay to get more traction

366
00:16:11,860 --> 00:16:13,980
with the content you already have.

367
00:16:13,980 --> 00:16:17,260
It's almost like if you had five trailers

368
00:16:17,260 --> 00:16:19,380
to the movie that you were promoting

369
00:16:19,380 --> 00:16:22,740
and you knew that trailer number three was the best one,

370
00:16:22,740 --> 00:16:24,740
okay, run that one some more.

371
00:16:24,740 --> 00:16:26,820
I already have it, I have my results.

372
00:16:26,820 --> 00:16:28,580
I have this content already.

373
00:16:28,580 --> 00:16:30,820
Not everyone in the country has seen it

374
00:16:30,820 --> 00:16:34,620
so I can run this again, I can run this more.

375
00:16:34,620 --> 00:16:36,740
I think a big mistake that folks make

376
00:16:36,740 --> 00:16:39,720
is they stop promoting what's working

377
00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:41,780
for the sake of something being new,

378
00:16:41,780 --> 00:16:43,620
just because it's new.

379
00:16:43,620 --> 00:16:47,340
And who cares if the song that people love the most

380
00:16:47,340 --> 00:16:48,940
came out a year ago?

381
00:16:48,940 --> 00:16:50,540
If that's the song that the people

382
00:16:50,540 --> 00:16:52,780
at the top of the funnel like the most,

383
00:16:52,780 --> 00:16:55,540
what do we care about when it came out?

384
00:16:55,540 --> 00:16:58,400
What's a metric that usually, what's like the,

385
00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:03,240
if you're kind of like, okay, this artist like,

386
00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:05,080
they want kind of a little bit of a quick win

387
00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:06,760
to like keep their head in the game.

388
00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:08,800
What is that usually that metric?

389
00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:13,000
Is it just like streams in total or?

390
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:16,080
I think if they're like at that stage,

391
00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:21,080
my guess would be that ads aren't as much the problem

392
00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:24,460
as the organic side may be.

393
00:17:25,360 --> 00:17:27,320
So maybe that quick win would be like,

394
00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:29,920
hey dude, instead of spending $500 on an ad,

395
00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:33,920
maybe we take, we do 300, we can do, I don't know,

396
00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:37,640
we'll pay some influencer to do content for us.

397
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:40,920
We'll spend 150 bucks on getting a better camera

398
00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:43,960
and then we'll film, whatever, whatever that means.

399
00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:49,840
Often people who have an organic content problem

400
00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:54,720
try to solve that problem with ads,

401
00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:55,960
but then you run into this,

402
00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,920
okay, so if I'm promoting on Instagram or TikTok,

403
00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,060
even if my ad is fantastic and it's saying,

404
00:18:02,060 --> 00:18:04,400
yeah, my new album, whatever the message is,

405
00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:06,440
new album's out now, go to Spotify.

406
00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,320
Most people are gonna say, who's this guy?

407
00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,200
And they're gonna check out the profile on that platform

408
00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:16,200
before they just like jump you to go right to Spotify.

409
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:19,720
So even if the ad is great, they say, who's this guy?

410
00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,280
Or if Daniel's first video was great and you say,

411
00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:23,120
who's this guy?

412
00:18:23,120 --> 00:18:24,680
And his website looks like shit,

413
00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:26,320
you're not signing up for his program.

414
00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,680
You know, it's all part of it.

415
00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,920
And that, if they're looking for a quick win,

416
00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:35,360
we just talked about how long it takes ad campaigns

417
00:18:35,360 --> 00:18:36,200
to kind of get going.

418
00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:37,960
You're not gonna make your money back right away.

419
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:39,720
If they're looking for that quick win right away

420
00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:40,880
with a few hundred bucks,

421
00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:44,000
put it into the content itself, not an ad.

422
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,600
Just the same as like, hey, I can't get my mix right.

423
00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,000
Go to a better studio, pay a little bit more

424
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:51,920
to make better content that we then promote later.

425
00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:53,480
Producers like that answer.

426
00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:56,720
Yeah, I mean, and that's,

427
00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:58,800
it's not just cause I work with producers.

428
00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:02,080
It's just truly how I feel because like, you know,

429
00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:03,760
let's be honest.

430
00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:06,720
Like most of us are not discovering our favorite artist

431
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:07,560
from ads.

432
00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,440
It's just one piece of the entire ecosystem.

433
00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:11,960
And like, when I would listen to interviews,

434
00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,800
like Ari Hurston has like some pretty good interview.

435
00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:16,040
He has an awesome YouTube channel

436
00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:18,120
with like legit interviews with people.

437
00:19:18,120 --> 00:19:20,040
They're just not that popular cause people, you know,

438
00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:22,360
it's not like YouTube influencer content,

439
00:19:22,360 --> 00:19:23,640
but they're really good.

440
00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:29,600
And he was talking with the founder.

441
00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:32,000
I think it's called God Mode.

442
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,200
It's kind of like a label artist development company.

443
00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:37,320
And they have like a JPEG mafia, like some other artists,

444
00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:40,160
like that's like two or three artists that she represents.

445
00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:42,360
And he was asked, he's like, so what about paid ads?

446
00:19:42,360 --> 00:19:45,880
And like, she's like, meh, it's like maybe 10% of it.

447
00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,240
You know, so it's still 10% of it.

448
00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:49,720
If it didn't mean anything,

449
00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:51,680
she wouldn't have done it at all, I would reckon.

450
00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:52,520
Also in the interview,

451
00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:54,120
she didn't share what the secret sauce was.

452
00:19:54,120 --> 00:19:57,320
Cause she was like, that's my IP, I'm not giving it away.

453
00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:00,160
But Ari's trying to dig and like get some info from her

454
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,120
cause he has a podcast on YouTube.

455
00:20:02,120 --> 00:20:04,240
He's like, come on, we need some info here.

456
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:05,400
But I just, I took away,

457
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,680
I thought that was actually a pretty good takeaway

458
00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:09,200
cause I can just refer people to that.

459
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:10,920
I'm like, listen, this is someone who breaks artists

460
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:12,000
all the time.

461
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,160
And like, it's not because they're spending

462
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:15,560
a bunch of money on ads.

463
00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:17,680
That's maybe 10% of the equation.

464
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:19,600
I would assume what she is doing

465
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:21,400
is like boosting stuff that's already working

466
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,440
or maybe it's show specific ads, you know,

467
00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:26,720
like for events coming up.

468
00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:31,040
But yeah, like it comes down to the changing,

469
00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:34,040
the mindset, the thinking of the artists to like,

470
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:38,280
yo, you're trying to use this to save a bad product

471
00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,200
instead of putting the money into making a good product.

472
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:42,040
Yep.

473
00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:43,720
And I actually, I'm thinking right now,

474
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,840
I was thinking like an ad that I saw recently

475
00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,120
that I remembered, like I'm a John Mayer fan

476
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,120
and he's coming to town in the fall.

477
00:20:52,120 --> 00:20:54,160
And like the ad was targeted

478
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:57,240
cause it knew what cities to target cause of the tour.

479
00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:59,240
But like that resonated with me.

480
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:01,600
It's a good example because I only needed

481
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:03,600
to see that ad one time

482
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:05,680
because I'm already a John Mayer fan.

483
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:07,920
I've already seen him in concert twice.

484
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:09,280
I know I like it.

485
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:10,240
Wow, I'm in Charlotte.

486
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:12,240
He's going to be here, message received.

487
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:14,880
I don't need to see this 26 times.

488
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:18,320
But even if it was like Gary Clark Jr.

489
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,680
who I'm very aware of, but I'm not as big a fan as,

490
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,040
or haven't put as much time into discovering his music

491
00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:25,440
as I have John Mayer.

492
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:27,400
That message, even though I'm very aware

493
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,280
of Gary Clark Jr., I may forget when he's coming to Charlotte

494
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:32,560
or was Charlotte on that list?

495
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:33,880
I don't really remember.

496
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:35,600
Like I might need to see that a few times.

497
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:37,720
And that we're talking about artists that are big

498
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:39,880
that you are familiar with.

499
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:42,040
Almost nobody can you get,

500
00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:44,040
especially someone who does not know you,

501
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:47,960
you cannot message one time and expect anything.

502
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:52,320
Really the win is somebody watched the ad.

503
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:54,360
They watched the whole video.

504
00:21:54,360 --> 00:21:57,440
That's kind of the single, great, I'm on bass.

505
00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:00,400
The double is, oh, wow, they checked out my profile after

506
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:01,800
and the home run would be, holy shit,

507
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,480
they decided to go to my YouTube channel

508
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:06,040
and subscribe after.

509
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:07,400
Like they went all the way around.

510
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:09,880
We scored a run, good, boom, got a fan.

511
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:12,000
But right now we're just trying to get on bass.

512
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:13,760
Having them not skip the ad and go,

513
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:18,600
and onto the next thing is a decent win.

514
00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,320
The win, yeah, that's another thing too, yeah.

515
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:24,280
Yeah, and that's at the beginning.

516
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:26,400
Now, if I'm six months into my campaign,

517
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:27,840
I don't wanna keep doing that.

518
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:29,720
I don't want just, hey, I need some of these people

519
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,720
watching this to do something for me.

520
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:35,400
But if we're talking just getting started,

521
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,600
having somebody not scroll past it and go,

522
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,640
what is this crap, is a single.

523
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:42,440
Yeah, love it.

524
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:43,840
Yeah, go for it, Matt.

525
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:45,360
Awesome, thanks, Dan.

526
00:22:45,360 --> 00:22:46,280
Elliot, thanks for doing this.

527
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:47,840
This is a lot of awesome info.

528
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:49,680
I didn't wanna type this

529
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:51,000
because I don't really know the best way to word it.

530
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,800
Now, say your goal is you wanna build more followers

531
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:56,720
for the artist, right, or that's their goal.

532
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:58,400
What would be a good way to retain that?

533
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:00,880
I know consistency with posting content

534
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:01,960
is a big part of it.

535
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:04,000
I mean, is there a certain metric for that?

536
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:05,840
Like how much you should be posting per week

537
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:09,240
or anything like that in order to keep that audience

538
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:10,560
engaged with you?

539
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:11,800
Great question.

540
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,120
No, there's no set answer.

541
00:23:14,120 --> 00:23:18,040
I've been trying to make little tips and trick content

542
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:22,520
for years and I just now have the pieces in place enough

543
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:23,880
where I can post every day.

544
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,200
And I have three people working for me.

545
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:31,200
So that is not easy to do on top of whatever your business is,

546
00:23:31,360 --> 00:23:33,280
whatever making music is.

547
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:37,440
But being consistent to some degree is key.

548
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,760
Whether that means you have the means and the resources

549
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:45,120
to make eight videos a week or three or two,

550
00:23:45,120 --> 00:23:47,880
just being consistent with them and having,

551
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:49,320
if you're in a spot where you know

552
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:53,280
what your next three posts are, that's a good spot.

553
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:54,800
Because then you're not playing from,

554
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:56,560
oh shit, I need a post today.

555
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,960
Oh, I guess I'll just this click and then now it sucks.

556
00:23:59,960 --> 00:24:01,040
Right. Right.

557
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:04,480
So just if you're just whatever ahead of the game so much

558
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:06,640
that you know what your next two moves are

559
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:08,800
is a decent spot to be.

560
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:12,480
And I think part of this experiment is figuring out

561
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,280
how consistent you need to be.

562
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:16,800
Do I need to post every day?

563
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:18,680
Do I need something on my story every day

564
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,080
but I only post Monday, Wednesday, Friday?

565
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,800
There is no right recipe for everybody.

566
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:25,640
Gotcha.

567
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:27,400
So it's kind of like trial and error in a way,

568
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,200
what works best with your schedule and everything.

569
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,600
Yeah, I'll say, I'll add to this too.

570
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,760
Like I got two points here with the quality thing,

571
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,040
just being like YouTube's our main platform.

572
00:24:38,120 --> 00:24:40,680
It used to be one of those things where it's like,

573
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,920
you know, post every day or post once a week even

574
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,000
or some twice a week or whatever.

575
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:50,280
And like that's kind of gone away because it's,

576
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:52,440
you know, I think there's the lesson,

577
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,520
some people will say like post a lot just because yes,

578
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:57,760
technically you're developing the skill, you know,

579
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,640
just like getting better at making whatever that content is,

580
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:02,360
getting more used to it, it gets faster.

581
00:25:02,360 --> 00:25:04,800
That is a benefit of, I guess, doing it often.

582
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:09,680
But most of like my YouTube buddies and stuff,

583
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:13,480
they're just like, if I have four video ideas,

584
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:15,720
that's one a week for one month,

585
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:17,360
but two of them are really bad ass.

586
00:25:17,360 --> 00:25:19,920
And the other two are like, yeah, they're fine.

587
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:21,680
Why even post the, yeah, they're fine ones.

588
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,240
Just post the two ones that are really great ideas.

589
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:26,800
And you've, you know, Mr. Beast kind of changed that,

590
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,040
you know, cause like he does big productions

591
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:30,200
and it's like, oh, okay.

592
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,880
He's not posting every day technically, you know,

593
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:34,400
not on the main channel.

594
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:35,720
But when he does put out a video,

595
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,280
it is this kind of extravaganza, the quality of content.

596
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,200
It's like super dialed in the thumbnails and titles

597
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,840
and, you know, take that advice for any platform.

598
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,480
TikTok's kind of recently become the same thing.

599
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,120
It used to be like, and that we have a like short form

600
00:25:49,120 --> 00:25:51,080
content class in our temporary library

601
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:52,120
that we're gonna have to update

602
00:25:52,120 --> 00:25:54,640
because it's just not relevant anymore of like,

603
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:56,800
you don't need to go out and do one a day.

604
00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:58,960
We have Ahmad, I don't think he's here,

605
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,840
but you know, he has like six TikToks

606
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:03,920
and I think almost all of them have

607
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:05,800
over 10,000 views or something.

608
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:07,760
Only six, his first 60 ever did

609
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,760
because they're just done really, really well.

610
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:14,680
So the other point I'll make is the consistency thing.

611
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:16,680
Again, consistency doesn't mean often,

612
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:18,480
but it does mean consistent.

613
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,440
I like wrecked our mailing list,

614
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:23,160
like open rate because of that,

615
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,720
like taking just too big of gaps to where

616
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,560
when I finally send an email out, they forgot who it was.

617
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:31,760
And they're just like, oh, unsubscribe.

618
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,000
They assume it's spam and you'll get replies like,

619
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,960
hey man, like don't spam me, da, da, da, da, da.

620
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:39,880
And it's like, no, you signed up.

621
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:41,440
There would have been no way for you to be on this list

622
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,280
unless you signed up because you wanted to be on it.

623
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,960
But the fault is on me because it's been a year

624
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,560
and they just assumed someone stole their email address

625
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:51,840
and put it on a list.

626
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:55,520
So like rebuilding that has been like, it tanked.

627
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:57,400
It used to be like really good.

628
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,360
And just because of not being consistent with it,

629
00:27:00,360 --> 00:27:01,600
it tanked it.

630
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:07,440
So I've experienced both sides of the good and bad of that.

631
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:12,600
Yep, I think that's a good key thing to look at.

632
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,480
If the way you're making content for your audience

633
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:21,120
is a high quality once every two weeks release on YouTube,

634
00:27:21,120 --> 00:27:23,040
you can make that work.

635
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,160
Or if it's, hey, I have a lot of people

636
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,880
who my core fan base likes to see me make TikToks

637
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:30,560
where I'm just walking around and going, da, da, da, da,

638
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:31,840
beautiful outside.

639
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,120
Like some artists do that because the people

640
00:27:34,120 --> 00:27:36,440
who care about it, care about it.

641
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,120
And you can get away with posting eight times a day,

642
00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:42,440
some folks, but others every other day.

643
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:47,440
Whatever the frequency is, as long as it's consistent.

644
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,880
And because then what you know, okay, hey,

645
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,000
I can make three videos a week.

646
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,200
I know it takes me a few hours to do it on Monday.

647
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,640
I fill my, okay, now I know what I have.

648
00:27:57,640 --> 00:27:59,640
Now I know what I can plan.

649
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:04,560
It doesn't necessarily matter what the plan is

650
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:06,760
as much as it matters that you have one.

651
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,680
So, and then at the beginning, if you start with something

652
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,080
and you say, okay, I'm gonna keep my eye on what's working,

653
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:13,520
what I can kind of tweak.

654
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,120
Well, then next month, it'll be a little bit better.

655
00:28:16,120 --> 00:28:18,600
And if we can get 7% better each month,

656
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,480
then in a year from now, you're cruising.

657
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,880
And it seems like that long time of like, man,

658
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:28,480
this is inching along, but in the course of a year,

659
00:28:29,360 --> 00:28:31,280
a little bit here, a little bit there, a little bit there.

660
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:33,400
Now all of a sudden, when you're turning on ad campaigns,

661
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:34,400
you know what to look for.

662
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:36,360
You know what questions you need to ask.

663
00:28:36,360 --> 00:28:38,560
And even if it's just getting them out the door

664
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:40,200
and they're happy, hey, look, it's running.

665
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:41,760
You're gonna see some good results you like.

666
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:42,800
Here you go.

667
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:43,640
Betty.

668
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:44,640
That's awesome, thank you.

669
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:46,160
I actually kind of wanna push back a little bit

670
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:50,600
on what Dan said, just kind of anecdotally,

671
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:55,000
because I feel like with the four badass videos

672
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:56,880
and only posting two of them, like,

673
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:01,400
it's so hard to be accurate with your judgment

674
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:02,720
of your own stuff, you know?

675
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:04,280
Like what you think is a stinker

676
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,760
really might not be a stinker to like a lot of people.

677
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:09,200
You can get in the habit of just like,

678
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:11,040
not releasing or finishing things

679
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,400
and just judging things before they're even done.

680
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,200
And like, if you build the habit,

681
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:19,480
I feel like of the two, building the habit of posting

682
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:23,200
versus like, not posting is way better.

683
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:24,680
With my anecdotal thing of like,

684
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:25,960
the video I was talking about that popped,

685
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,440
I literally was not gonna post it because I was like,

686
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,760
this is filmed weird and the lighting's weird.

687
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:32,280
And I wasn't excited about it,

688
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:33,760
but I was just like, whatever,

689
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:35,160
my shit's not getting views anyways,

690
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:36,280
so no one's gonna see it.

691
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,800
But then it blew up and literally my,

692
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:42,400
one of my two favorite producers of all time

693
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,040
commented on it, followed me from that video.

694
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,640
And I was like, oh my fucking God, what?

695
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:48,440
And so I was like, from that point on,

696
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:49,720
I was like, you know what?

697
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,800
I'm just gonna keep going, just keep sharing stuff

698
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:54,880
and try not to get in my head about it.

699
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:55,720
Because I don't really,

700
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:57,800
obviously I'm not a very good judge.

701
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:02,080
And also like, most of us are very self-critical.

702
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:03,520
And so like, if we get to a point

703
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:05,640
where we say that something's done,

704
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,720
it's probably at a certain threshold of quality,

705
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,200
if that makes sense, you know what I'm saying?

706
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,040
So even if we're not stoked about it,

707
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,320
it's hit a certain threshold where it's shareable.

708
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:20,200
Yeah, the particular YouTuber that told me this

709
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:21,520
was Nathan Larson.

710
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,000
I think some of it for the guys like that,

711
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:25,640
that are pretty well established.

712
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:28,640
I think how he gauges it is like,

713
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:30,920
he's like, if I feel like I'm having to stretch

714
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,400
just to make something, you know,

715
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,160
to hit the one a week thing,

716
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:37,200
he's like, why?

717
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:38,400
Then it's, I'm phoning it in,

718
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,000
kind of think that was his sort of take.

719
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:42,400
But yeah, no, that totally makes sense.

720
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:43,920
Yeah, yeah, you don't really know.

721
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,360
It's like the one that popped off for us recently,

722
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:47,200
the YouTube videos,

723
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,280
it's definitely not the one I wanted to pop off,

724
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,280
but you know, it is what it is.

725
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:56,480
I think in a way, you almost have to be indifferent.

726
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,080
Like, you know, you want attention.

727
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,760
Like in a way, like I want my music.

728
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:03,760
Oh, track number five got popular.

729
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:05,640
I wanted track number three to get popular.

730
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:09,880
Oh, you know, like I think in a way,

731
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,080
you can certainly build up to the point

732
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,320
where I think it is somewhat of a luxury

733
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:16,640
to be able to be picky.

734
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:17,760
I'll be like, oh, you know what?

735
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:19,080
I know what my fan's like.

736
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:20,600
I've kind of got something going here.

737
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:22,400
I have a level of quality.

738
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:24,520
I finished these four videos.

739
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:26,320
Like, Betty, I see your point of like,

740
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:27,840
hey, let's finish this.

741
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:29,840
Like, let's stay creative.

742
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:31,560
But if then you can kind of get to the point where,

743
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:33,600
hey, look, I know what I'm doing.

744
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,640
This video, we tried, it doesn't fit.

745
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:40,640
I think that's a great spot to be able to be in.

746
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,560
But at the beginning, fire it all out there.

747
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:44,640
And kind of like, like you said,

748
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:46,920
like let's let the audience determine.

749
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,000
You can always go back and delete it.

750
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:49,880
Exactly.

751
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:50,720
Yeah.

752
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:52,400
Where it's like, like give it two weeks,

753
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,160
give it three, like three months.

754
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,040
And then if it's cringe and it still has a hundred views,

755
00:31:58,040 --> 00:31:58,880
then delete it.

756
00:31:58,880 --> 00:31:59,720
Yeah.

757
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:00,760
And go and saw it anyway.

758
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:02,360
I think that that's the key.

759
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:06,000
If no one's gonna see it anyway, that's kind of the key.

760
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,280
I would say like, say if I had 50,000 subscribers

761
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:10,760
who were gonna see it,

762
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,240
maybe then I have the luxury to be able

763
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,720
a little bit more nitpicky.

764
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:17,720
But cause then, oh shit, people did see it.

765
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:19,680
And it, oh, it wasn't the quality I was hoping for.

766
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:20,520
Ah, damn.

767
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,720
Like, so there is that, that key factor

768
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:25,920
of if I'm kind of an experimental face

769
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:27,400
and Matt ground zero, screw it.

770
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:28,840
Throw them all, throw them all out there.

771
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:30,920
But if I, hey, I've got a lot of people watching this shit.

772
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:32,680
I gotta make sure the quality is good.

773
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:34,760
I do understand that side too.

774
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:35,600
Yep.

775
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,200
I actually had a quick question if you don't mind.

776
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:39,040
Yeah.

777
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,760
We'll do you and then we'll wrap with Terry.

778
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:45,680
Just, I guess kind of broadly, I was curious about

779
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:50,000
if you have built an audience on a platform,

780
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,360
just speaking to the mindset shift,

781
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:53,760
once you're kind of,

782
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,040
you don't feel like you need to grow a lot,

783
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:58,320
what's next kind of thing like?

784
00:32:58,320 --> 00:32:59,520
Great question.

785
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,680
I think it depends on the musician

786
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,520
or like the business, let's say.

787
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:09,480
Like I kind of, in the last year or so,

788
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,880
I don't have like a big following on my personal.

789
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:13,880
It's like 15,000 followers or whatever.

790
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,040
But I was spending a lot of time a year or two ago

791
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:18,320
trying to grow that.

792
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,400
And then I did feel like, hey, I'm kind of getting,

793
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,360
my work level is kind of good.

794
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,240
My focus can kind of go into something else.

795
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,440
Maybe it's, oh man, now that I have these clients,

796
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:29,800
now I need more help.

797
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:31,680
So this money that was going into content,

798
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:35,200
going into ads, some of it now maybe is going into help.

799
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:40,160
Or maybe it's a, hey, I've built this audience

800
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,560
of 20,000 folks who listen to my music on Spotify.

801
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,880
And now that energy is going to go into trying to book

802
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:50,640
an event to play for these folks.

803
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,480
I do think you can get to the point,

804
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,320
Dan said it earlier, where like many of the musicians,

805
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,360
like if many of the big musicians,

806
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:00,800
they're not doing this shit.

807
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:02,160
But that's because it's almost like

808
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,040
if I'm a business owner, hey, I've grown this.

809
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:06,200
My business has grown.

810
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:07,920
I'm gonna hire a marketing guy

811
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:09,720
so that I can keep growing my business

812
00:34:09,720 --> 00:34:11,880
doing what I'm doing over here.

813
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:13,360
Same kind of thing.

814
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:15,440
And that's, again, is a luxury.

815
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:16,880
Like most people don't have extra money

816
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,800
to hire an agency or hire like a go-to marketing guy

817
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:21,640
who's like in there every day.

818
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:26,640
So you kind of have to grass root it and do it yourself

819
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:29,960
until you kind of get to the point where, okay, hey, look,

820
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:31,440
I've got enough of an audience here.

821
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:32,560
I can play a few shows.

822
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,720
I've got an extra 800 bucks a month.

823
00:34:35,720 --> 00:34:37,840
So I'll spend five on a marketing guy.

824
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:39,640
And now I can do twice as much marketing

825
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:42,800
if I stay doing what I do and he can do the extra,

826
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:44,280
that.

827
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:49,000
But like, yeah, where your money goes changes for sure.

828
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,560
And if you have the luxury where you said

829
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,280
you've got enough money to continue growing your fan base

830
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:59,280
and get a booking agent or whatever, great.

831
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:01,920
But sometimes you can't do both.

832
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:02,760
Love it.

833
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:03,600
Good points.

834
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:04,440
Cool.

835
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:05,760
Still in the getting the money phase going.

836
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:07,160
That's why you're here.

837
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,120
That's the hard part.

838
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:09,960
Yep.

839
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:11,760
It does get easier though, like over time

840
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,240
as you get that part sorted, you just get more leverage.

841
00:35:14,240 --> 00:35:17,120
You get, you know, obviously our Elliot's business

842
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:18,240
is a little different from y'all's.

843
00:35:18,240 --> 00:35:20,320
Mine's, I mean, not my old one,

844
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,040
but the new one's kind of different.

845
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,640
But like, I think both of us could attest that like,

846
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:26,600
yeah, of course, like the beginning of any business

847
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:27,440
is kind of the toughest.

848
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,120
And then whether you're an artist or whether you're a producer,

849
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,280
whether you're an ads guy,

850
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:34,600
but once you get some momentum going, it's like, cool.

851
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:36,600
Now it's just a fuel source.

852
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:38,600
Music

853
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,160
Let's rap a Mr. Terry.

854
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:03,760
Where's the money?

855
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:13,520
Hey, so I missed a little bit of meeting, so I apologize for that. I will be watching

856
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:18,920
the recording, so if the answer to the question is, what does a video, that's cool. And I

857
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:23,440
think you just answered one of my questions. I recently heard a label guy say that they'll

858
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:29,760
spend a million dollars to make a song turn into a hit. And I guess where that million

859
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:36,080
bucks probably goes is into financing a team. Is that correct? Probably a marketing team

860
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:39,600
or something like that. And then everybody does what they're good at.

861
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:44,560
So problem, my guess is every label has a different structure and all that. But yeah,

862
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:50,920
I mean, it's okay. So I mean, you've got, you've probably got an organic content person

863
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:56,240
or people who's just making the good organic content. If you've got good money, you've

864
00:36:56,280 --> 00:37:01,840
probably got a person who's on, like, say, just Facebook and Instagram ads. That's probably

865
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:07,680
one person. If you're doing TikTok, that's probably another person. Like, it's definitely

866
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:16,640
a team. It's like a Spotify guy. So, I mean, depending on the label, they all have actor

867
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:22,720
deals with Spotify and things like that, where a lot of it might be out of the artist's hands.

868
00:37:22,720 --> 00:37:28,240
That might be why they go to a label or part of the reason they go to a label in the first

869
00:37:28,240 --> 00:37:34,880
place. But there are also things like, yeah, there might be a playlist guy who just knows

870
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:42,320
playlist people. And because it comes down to like, okay, I'm a business owner who happens

871
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:47,040
to be a musician. And just like any other business, there's many things that need to be done.

872
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:55,120
But I can't be my website guy, my accountant, my, you know, my own assistant. I can't be my,

873
00:37:55,120 --> 00:38:03,200
I can't do all this shit. So I can either do all of this at this level and stay here. Or if I stay

874
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:08,320
focused on these two or three things, I can do those and my money can pay to do these two or

875
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:14,960
three things. And now you bring them up all up to this level. So my guess is the majority of that

876
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:21,360
money goes into the media buying of actually paying to run the ads or paying big influencers

877
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:26,880
to be part of it or something like that. But there's absolutely a team. It's not just one guy

878
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:32,880
coordinating all this. It'd be too hard. Okay, I have two other quick specific questions.

879
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:41,840
One is there's someone that I'm connected to that I know that has a program for pre-saving

880
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:47,920
on Spotify. So is there, what kind of benefit is there to an artist in getting pre-saves

881
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:53,680
for a release on Spotify? Because they're getting like between 500 and 1000 pre-saves.

882
00:38:54,400 --> 00:39:00,560
So, okay, so a pre-save is valuable. Of course, if someone's going to pre-save your song,

883
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:10,080
that's great. My pushback on that in terms of a marketing move, like if I have an audience that

884
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:16,800
I can organically push to a pre-save, hell yeah, I'm going to do it. But I'm not going to put money

885
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:24,000
into running a pre-save campaign at folks who do not know me yet. I guess there might be some value

886
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:30,400
if you have a large enough audience that you could only run that pre-save ad at the audience you

887
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:38,480
already have, maybe. But I wouldn't spend much money on a pre-save. Hey, stranger, I'll have this

888
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:46,000
in three weeks, hope you remember message. But if they're happening organically, then hell yeah,

889
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:51,280
they're definitely, the pre-saves in and of themselves aren't bad. I just wouldn't pay

890
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:57,520
a lot of money to promote that link. If I have a song right next to it that's already out,

891
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:02,240
why not pay to promote that one? And if they like that song, that's the best ad for the next song

892
00:40:02,240 --> 00:40:07,840
that you could possibly have. Yeah, cool. Okay, last question, and this is kind of an offer to

893
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:17,040
everybody as well. So I have some big Instagram accounts and I'll do reels on them and feature

894
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:24,160
songs from my friends and quite often the videos will go viral. They'll almost always get 20,

895
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:28,720
30,000 views and often they'll get hundreds of thousands. I have one that's like at 1.8 million

896
00:40:28,720 --> 00:40:33,520
in the last couple of months. So my question is, so first of all, the offer is to my friends in

897
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:38,000
this group. If you guys have an artist or something that is, first of all, they have to

898
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:46,880
be released through the DSPs so I can find them on the Instagram Reel Audio. I can share their

899
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:53,680
music on a video, okay? So you can DM me on that. But the question is, on Reel's videos,

900
00:40:54,800 --> 00:41:01,280
what do I do with that? So they're getting all these views, so what's next? How can I turn that

901
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:07,120
into a win other than just the number? For those profiles? We'll give you some context,

902
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:12,320
Elliot. So basically it's like, yeah, it's like a snowboarding account, like fishing,

903
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:17,920
like different like topic-focused things that have a lot of followers. Yeah, so it'll have,

904
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:23,120
so yeah, so it'll be like a snowboarding account and there's a video of a guy snowboarding and

905
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:28,960
it'll have the music. And essentially what happens is when you use the Instagram audio,

906
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:34,240
it shows the, it has the name of the artist. It credits the artist. Like you don't have to

907
00:41:34,240 --> 00:41:38,720
do the crediting. It's already in there because it's the content, it's part of the content.

908
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:44,560
So you can actually click on it and then you'll go to that sound, I guess, similar to,

909
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:49,120
similar to TikTok. So you can click on the name of the song or the artist and it goes to that sound

910
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:56,480
and then you can reuse that song in your own videos. That's pretty cool. Is there any like

911
00:41:56,480 --> 00:42:01,120
ideas you have for that? Yeah, is there anything else that I can do other than, I mean, I guess,

912
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:04,640
you know, they, they can go viral because people like them, then they use them in their own videos.

913
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:10,800
And then, you know, I have one where the guy, he's, he's got almost 200 reels from something

914
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:16,720
that we started a few months ago, but is there anything other than that, like that we can do,

915
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:21,920
you know, with that, with that exposure? Well, you could do something, I guess,

916
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:29,520
story-based where your different messaging with the stories for the folks who are already following

917
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:36,240
you. The thing with reels in TikTok that makes it somewhat tricky is once it starts to catch

918
00:42:36,240 --> 00:42:42,560
on to anything, it starts showing you to folks who don't know you. So like as a lot of those

919
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:51,120
snowboarding videos might be going somewhat viral or whatever, just not because someone is aware of

920
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:56,480
your page, but because Instagram knows that this is a cool snowboarding video and knows where to

921
00:42:56,480 --> 00:43:03,760
place it. So I think one thing that you could do is you could almost start like a, like I, if I were

922
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:09,760
you, I might start like a personal page where you say, Hey, I'm the curator at these three or four

923
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:15,520
places. And if you're interested in getting on them, talk to me, because then now you can sell

924
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:21,760
that access without being directly from that page, which might dilute it to some of the followers

925
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:28,400
who are just there because it's cool snowboarding videos. I might like open up a little side thing

926
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:33,520
that just says, Hey, I'm the curator at these places, at these websites, contact me. I'm here

927
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:38,640
to help you as a musician get exposure. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah. So that's, that's a really

928
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:43,440
good idea. I'm going to do that. But that's really my question more was how can I turn that into,

929
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:48,560
how can I lever that into more horsepower for the actual artist? And I mean, one of the things that

930
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:57,120
one of the things I do is I'll end up, I'll repost the real as a story and then I can put a link

931
00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:02,800
in this on the store. So that's, that's so I can do that. So I can link back to their link tree or,

932
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:08,000
or, or their Spotify thing. But other than that, it's kind of a dead end, you know,

933
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:11,760
but it's tricky because they're there for the snowboarding, not for the song.

934
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:16,880
Yeah, the song supports the video and it's like awesome, you know, context, but like,

935
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:20,800
they're not there for the song as much as they are for the snowboarding.

936
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:27,920
Like when is this guy basically skiing off a cliff and the song is called fly to you,

937
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:33,760
you know, that's the one that has almost 1.8 million views. It's, it's definitely the video

938
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:39,360
that that's getting shared. I think it's cool for the artists. So yeah, yeah, you never know.

939
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:43,280
People hear songs and TikToks all the time and are like, oh, I like that song and I want to use

940
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:48,080
it for something. So yeah, like, but I love the idea of having that mother account. That's,

941
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:52,400
that's a really good idea. Thank you. Sure. Appreciate it. I think the,

942
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:59,520
the juice that you can offer an artist is kind of just within, I think in a way those accounts are,

943
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:05,520
are about doing as much as they can, you know, without it getting confusing with someone being

944
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:09,920
like, wait, is this account promoting the artist or the snowboarding video? You know, it might get

945
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:13,920
confusing for Joe Schmo who, who's kind of perusing around.

946
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:20,720
One thing for sure is, is the artists are super stoked and super appreciative. Like they can't

947
00:45:20,720 --> 00:45:26,160
believe it. You know, like they get, like their, their, their song gets like 20,000 views and reels

948
00:45:26,720 --> 00:45:31,840
and, and most of the time, the stuff that we do is, is the top of their, their list of, you know,

949
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:36,800
like if there's, you know, we've seen the list for the sound, it's almost always the number one.

950
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:42,080
I got, there was one that I found today that I'd forgotten about that have 45,000 on it.

951
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:46,320
So I just sent her the legs say, Hey, it got 45,000. She was like, Oh my God. You know?

952
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:52,160
Yeah. So I think it's a good value add for you. Yeah. Yeah. Appreciate your time.

953
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:57,680
Sure. Appreciate all yours. Thanks for coming by. Cool. All right, everybody. Exciting. We can have

954
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:02,960
Elliot come back to do some more like Q and A at some point as well. But Elliot, appreciate your

955
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:08,720
time, my friend. And this was great. Hopefully everybody feels, and there's a lot of information

956
00:46:08,720 --> 00:46:12,560
so you can go back and watch the replay, but hopefully you feel like you at least have enough

957
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:17,040
to like, and maybe we could get the slides to you, Elliot, if someone wants to just review it.

958
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:22,560
At least you have enough to like talk shop with the artist and be a partner with them on it.

959
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:30,160
Again, I'm an expert and I'll kind of say like your network is very important. So yeah, Elliot

960
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:34,640
just put his Instagram here. So if you have an artist that wants to hire somebody, he's like,

961
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:39,200
yeah, cool. I know a guy that does this stuff and send them to an expert at some point, if that's

962
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:43,920
what they want and what they need. Elliot is one of those guys. But to me, the value of a producer

963
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:48,720
is not that you have to do everything and be a good marketing guy and be a good video music,

964
00:46:48,720 --> 00:46:53,040
video maker and all this. It's like, no, a producer is there to just provide clarity.

965
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:56,480
And there's so many guys telling me about marketing and this thing and that thing and this

966
00:46:56,480 --> 00:47:01,200
thing. It's just, it puts an artist at ease where it's just like, Hey, I've got a guy that I trust

967
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:06,240
that can help with this. Like that is more valuable than you may think it sounds on the surface.

968
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:12,480
So I know Elliot, you and I are in similar networks together with like Mark Eckert and

969
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:17,440
Black Pearl and all those guys. And it's like, yeah, I can go to Mark and be like,

970
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:21,360
Hey, who's the ad guy that you trust? Cause I need a class for my guy. It's like, Oh, this,

971
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:25,280
I mean, I already knew of you, but let's say I didn't like, I'm just going to trust what Mark

972
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:29,680
says. Cause that's the relationship we have. And great. That saves me from having to go like

973
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:33,760
find an interview, 50 different guys to make sure I don't put somebody in here that isn't

974
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:40,160
legit, you know? And the tall tale sign of who's legit is half of this Elliot was you being like,

975
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:43,440
yeah, they probably shouldn't spend any money on ads yet. That's usually a good sign of

976
00:47:44,240 --> 00:47:49,360
somebody that, that is, has the artist's best interest in mind and be like, Hey,

977
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:52,720
actually you should probably invest in the camera first. Don't worry about paying me the ads right

978
00:47:52,720 --> 00:47:58,880
now. Like, so appreciate that integrity and yeah, we'll have you back and thanks, man.

979
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:04,160
Thank you guys. If you have any questions, hit me up on the Instagram. I'm happy to help.

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Awesome. Thank you. Have a good one. Thank you. Take care. Bye. Thanks a lot.

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Go. That does it for this episode of the cut in through podcast. My name is Elliot Townsley.

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Thank you so much for tuning in and supporting the show. Believe it or not, aside from sending

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me money, the best way that you can support the show is by subscribing and rating the podcast

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on your favorite streaming platform and send us your questions about what type of topics you

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would like us to cover next. My name is Elliot Towsley. You can find me on Instagram at Elliot

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dot Towsley or check out my company, Denovo agency, where we can help entertainers and music

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businesses promote themselves online. This has been the cut and through podcast.

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Don't forget to subscribe and we will see you next time.