1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,260
The recipe for consistency is key.

2
00:00:04,260 --> 00:00:06,620
The consistency that you're going after

3
00:00:06,620 --> 00:00:11,480
is you want to consistently be generating engagement

4
00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:15,580
on Spotify or like wherever your content is, music video.

5
00:00:15,580 --> 00:00:18,040
That's the consistency you're going after.

6
00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:20,640
That doesn't mean that the only way to do that

7
00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:23,660
is with new songs all the time.

8
00:00:23,660 --> 00:00:25,460
Because eventually you're gonna run out of songs.

9
00:00:25,460 --> 00:00:27,860
And if the only way you can get people to listen to you

10
00:00:27,860 --> 00:00:30,180
is by putting something new out,

11
00:00:30,180 --> 00:00:32,580
eventually you're gonna run out of ammo.

12
00:00:32,580 --> 00:00:33,780
What's going on everybody?

13
00:00:33,780 --> 00:00:36,480
This is the Cutting Through podcast

14
00:00:36,480 --> 00:00:39,580
where we help entrepreneurs and entertainers

15
00:00:39,580 --> 00:00:41,980
cut through the noise and more importantly,

16
00:00:41,980 --> 00:00:46,180
cut through the bullshit that they see online.

17
00:00:46,180 --> 00:00:49,820
My name is Elliot Towsley and I am your host.

18
00:00:49,820 --> 00:00:52,700
In today's episode, I'm gonna be kicking it

19
00:00:52,700 --> 00:00:56,140
with a former NFL athlete turned musician.

20
00:00:56,180 --> 00:00:58,140
Please welcome today's guest.

21
00:00:58,140 --> 00:01:01,020
You might recognize him from the Oakland Raiders

22
00:01:01,020 --> 00:01:03,420
and the Broncos, it's Marquette King.

23
00:01:07,340 --> 00:01:09,140
I feel like I've been pulled different directions

24
00:01:09,140 --> 00:01:10,520
and getting screwed.

25
00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:11,500
That's really the thing.

26
00:01:11,500 --> 00:01:16,500
I think even people who do have your best interests in mind,

27
00:01:17,620 --> 00:01:22,620
there's no one right way to do the music industry.

28
00:01:22,740 --> 00:01:24,160
Let's say like with the NFL,

29
00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:28,960
the path to the NFL is more or less defined.

30
00:01:28,960 --> 00:01:31,680
But the path to a successful music business

31
00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:34,500
could be 87 different paths.

32
00:01:34,500 --> 00:01:38,980
And you do get pulled in a bunch of different directions

33
00:01:38,980 --> 00:01:42,160
because the message that I'm trying to get across

34
00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:45,320
to artists is you can listen to all this

35
00:01:45,320 --> 00:01:49,820
but you need to go into it like it's an experiment

36
00:01:49,820 --> 00:01:52,720
and you're building this experiment

37
00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:56,100
to try to find what works for you best.

38
00:01:56,100 --> 00:01:59,660
Because the path that ends up working best for you,

39
00:01:59,660 --> 00:02:03,280
the style of music you're making for your audience,

40
00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:06,900
that recipe of things that is gonna work best for you

41
00:02:06,900 --> 00:02:10,320
is just different than it's gonna be for your neighbor

42
00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:13,200
who might even make similar music.

43
00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:15,680
So you end up getting pulled a bunch of different directions.

44
00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:17,740
No, you gotta release music every Friday.

45
00:02:17,740 --> 00:02:20,280
No, you gotta release music once a year.

46
00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:23,800
No, you gotta advertise here, you gotta advertise here.

47
00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:26,000
So it's tough and it's kind of a shit storm.

48
00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:29,520
So all I try to do is just try to boil it down

49
00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:33,300
and be like, all of them may be correct.

50
00:02:33,300 --> 00:02:37,100
Yes, you may need Facebook ads and TikTok ads.

51
00:02:37,100 --> 00:02:40,640
The question is how much, where, to who?

52
00:02:40,640 --> 00:02:43,400
But before I ramble on any further,

53
00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:45,440
really when it comes to the music industry,

54
00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:49,380
it's about what you are trying to do with it,

55
00:02:49,380 --> 00:02:50,660
who you're trying to reach.

56
00:02:50,660 --> 00:02:52,940
So can you give me the breakdown

57
00:02:52,940 --> 00:02:57,140
of how you got to putting this EP together

58
00:02:57,140 --> 00:03:00,500
and say in a year and a half from now,

59
00:03:00,500 --> 00:03:01,860
with music in particular,

60
00:03:01,860 --> 00:03:06,120
do you have a set goal with it in mind?

61
00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:08,220
Or is it kind of up in the air

62
00:03:08,220 --> 00:03:10,580
and you're trying to find which way to go?

63
00:03:11,660 --> 00:03:14,340
I feel like when I started putting music out,

64
00:03:14,340 --> 00:03:16,660
it was kind of all over the place.

65
00:03:16,660 --> 00:03:17,820
It was kind of something everywhere,

66
00:03:17,820 --> 00:03:19,940
but I feel like it was pretty consistent

67
00:03:19,940 --> 00:03:21,700
with pop, hip hop, and EDM.

68
00:03:21,700 --> 00:03:24,700
It was consistent with those three genres.

69
00:03:24,700 --> 00:03:28,620
And I was kind of experimenting trying to figure out

70
00:03:28,620 --> 00:03:31,860
how to make all three of those blend with one track

71
00:03:31,860 --> 00:03:33,380
and how I approach it,

72
00:03:33,380 --> 00:03:35,900
how I put my voice on it and everything.

73
00:03:35,900 --> 00:03:38,740
But then it was someone I was working with before too.

74
00:03:38,740 --> 00:03:41,900
And we were talking about consistency

75
00:03:41,900 --> 00:03:45,060
and they kind of described the McDonald's menu thing

76
00:03:45,060 --> 00:03:47,500
where they started off with burgers and stuff.

77
00:03:48,180 --> 00:03:49,020
And it actually kind of made sense

78
00:03:49,020 --> 00:03:52,700
because if you want them to see you as somebody like Kanye

79
00:03:52,700 --> 00:03:54,220
or somebody where they start off

80
00:03:54,220 --> 00:03:56,140
with a certain type of hip hop for a while,

81
00:03:56,140 --> 00:03:59,320
now he's doing some other stuff that's actually kind of cool.

82
00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:01,260
And I was like, okay,

83
00:04:01,260 --> 00:04:03,620
well, maybe if I made an EP that was pretty consistent,

84
00:04:03,620 --> 00:04:05,820
but still had some of the variables that I have

85
00:04:05,820 --> 00:04:08,340
on my other songs that I'm not pushing as hard,

86
00:04:08,340 --> 00:04:11,220
then it'll find a way to mesh and blend.

87
00:04:11,220 --> 00:04:12,980
This is the reason why he makes

88
00:04:12,980 --> 00:04:14,460
those different styles of music.

89
00:04:14,460 --> 00:04:18,180
And yeah, so I decided to come up with a consistent EP

90
00:04:18,180 --> 00:04:21,060
and where the songs sound pretty similar

91
00:04:21,060 --> 00:04:25,740
with the guitar, the drums and the way that I approach it.

92
00:04:25,740 --> 00:04:28,100
Well, I'm definitely excited to hear the whole project.

93
00:04:28,100 --> 00:04:33,100
It sounds like, I think many EPs are kind of end up

94
00:04:33,500 --> 00:04:35,980
being like a collection of singles

95
00:04:35,980 --> 00:04:40,220
that are thrown together and kind of happen to be an EP.

96
00:04:40,220 --> 00:04:43,940
It sounds like this was kind of more like you approached it

97
00:04:43,940 --> 00:04:46,780
as a whole project, like from the get go.

98
00:04:46,780 --> 00:04:48,660
Is that kind of the idea, yeah?

99
00:04:48,660 --> 00:04:50,620
Yeah, so I just tried to find beats

100
00:04:50,620 --> 00:04:54,980
that sound very similar and the producer was consistent

101
00:04:54,980 --> 00:04:56,560
with the style of beats that he had.

102
00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:59,460
So it's like, you know what, let me try to be consistent

103
00:04:59,460 --> 00:05:03,260
because I've always had this mindset of just being yourself,

104
00:05:03,260 --> 00:05:08,260
being free, blah, but then also it is a blueprint somewhere.

105
00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,180
Like no matter how many different ideas you have,

106
00:05:11,180 --> 00:05:15,060
it is a narrow path that you kind of got to follow

107
00:05:15,060 --> 00:05:17,020
a little bit and then you can kind of branch off

108
00:05:17,020 --> 00:05:18,260
a little bit to your other stuff.

109
00:05:18,260 --> 00:05:20,540
And that's how I've always kind of lived my life too.

110
00:05:20,540 --> 00:05:23,980
Absolutely, I think music in particular,

111
00:05:23,980 --> 00:05:28,980
you can see people's influences come out in their music.

112
00:05:29,700 --> 00:05:33,380
I can see a lot of artists today, I can be like,

113
00:05:33,380 --> 00:05:36,460
okay, this guy clearly was influenced by Future,

114
00:05:36,460 --> 00:05:39,180
which is like, okay, I don't do it as like,

115
00:05:39,180 --> 00:05:41,140
oh, he's copying Future or anything like that.

116
00:05:42,140 --> 00:05:44,500
It's just like, if you watch a hundred hours

117
00:05:44,500 --> 00:05:46,740
of Tom Brady highlights, like when you're practicing

118
00:05:46,740 --> 00:05:48,980
quarterback, it might just happen to kind of look

119
00:05:48,980 --> 00:05:52,260
like the guy you've been watching, it just happens.

120
00:05:52,260 --> 00:05:53,100
Yeah.

121
00:05:53,100 --> 00:05:54,700
So who are some of your biggest influences

122
00:05:54,700 --> 00:05:56,740
for this particular EP?

123
00:05:56,740 --> 00:06:01,020
Man, I don't know if I had bigger influences for this one

124
00:06:01,020 --> 00:06:04,900
because now in the past, I've always been a huge

125
00:06:04,900 --> 00:06:09,500
Calvin Harris fan and will I am fan,

126
00:06:09,500 --> 00:06:13,900
but I don't know, as far as the influence for this,

127
00:06:13,900 --> 00:06:15,660
I don't know, I don't know.

128
00:06:15,660 --> 00:06:17,260
Cause I feel like once you start making music,

129
00:06:17,260 --> 00:06:19,460
you don't really, I don't really listen to a bunch

130
00:06:19,460 --> 00:06:22,940
of different artists because even when I'm making beats,

131
00:06:22,940 --> 00:06:25,060
I don't listen to other types of music really.

132
00:06:25,060 --> 00:06:27,140
I just don't, I don't know why.

133
00:06:27,140 --> 00:06:29,060
I'm just always trying to focus on trying to find a way

134
00:06:29,060 --> 00:06:31,380
to make whatever I just created a little bit better

135
00:06:31,380 --> 00:06:32,780
to where I'm happy with it.

136
00:06:33,780 --> 00:06:36,180
I don't know if I had huge influences when it came

137
00:06:36,220 --> 00:06:40,660
to this EP particularly, but the people that I got

138
00:06:40,660 --> 00:06:42,460
around me though, they actually said it sounded pretty good.

139
00:06:42,460 --> 00:06:46,620
So, I mean, hopefully it does sound pretty good

140
00:06:46,620 --> 00:06:47,660
to everybody else.

141
00:06:47,660 --> 00:06:50,260
I just kind of try to make music that I kind of like.

142
00:06:50,260 --> 00:06:51,820
I think that's what's important.

143
00:06:51,820 --> 00:06:53,940
You got to make music that you like.

144
00:06:53,940 --> 00:06:57,700
I think as an artist, as soon as you start changing

145
00:06:57,700 --> 00:07:01,540
that perspective and start chasing what you think

146
00:07:01,540 --> 00:07:04,820
other people will like or what you think the sound

147
00:07:04,820 --> 00:07:08,020
of the month is, that's when it starts to get

148
00:07:08,020 --> 00:07:11,700
disingenuous for maybe a lack of a better word.

149
00:07:11,700 --> 00:07:13,260
Clients ask me that all the time.

150
00:07:13,260 --> 00:07:15,780
They're like, well, if I have 10 songs

151
00:07:15,780 --> 00:07:18,940
and if one of them does better than the others,

152
00:07:18,940 --> 00:07:22,580
should I start making all my songs like that?

153
00:07:22,580 --> 00:07:24,700
And I kind of say, I'm like, well, no.

154
00:07:26,540 --> 00:07:29,460
You made all the songs that you liked to make.

155
00:07:29,460 --> 00:07:32,780
And if two of those 10 happen to be liked

156
00:07:32,780 --> 00:07:35,300
by the audience more, well, that's fine.

157
00:07:35,300 --> 00:07:39,300
But don't pigeonhole yourself into just doing one thing

158
00:07:39,300 --> 00:07:44,300
just because you think that's what somebody else will like.

159
00:07:44,420 --> 00:07:46,500
Just continue to make what you like

160
00:07:46,500 --> 00:07:49,020
and let the cream rise to the top.

161
00:07:49,020 --> 00:07:51,940
The Beatles didn't make every song the Beatles released

162
00:07:51,940 --> 00:07:53,180
wasn't a number one hit.

163
00:07:53,180 --> 00:07:55,500
You got to have your role played once in a while.

164
00:07:55,500 --> 00:07:56,860
Exactly, you got to have the role.

165
00:07:56,860 --> 00:07:57,700
And that's okay.

166
00:07:57,700 --> 00:08:01,280
Some of, but then those B-side records

167
00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:03,280
that weren't initially a hit

168
00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,240
that have maybe more depth to them.

169
00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:09,160
Or maybe you need to listen to them a second or third time

170
00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:10,880
to kind of get it.

171
00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:13,960
Whereas maybe a single is meant to be catchy right away

172
00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:15,360
and to kind of get your attention

173
00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:17,120
but those quote unquote B-sides

174
00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,560
that maybe slipped through the cracks initially.

175
00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:24,320
Sometimes those end up being the hidden gem favorites

176
00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:26,920
of listeners when they go through,

177
00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:28,840
they find an artist that they enjoy.

178
00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:29,680
And they're like, wait a minute,

179
00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:33,000
what's the song that wasn't a single that I really like?

180
00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:34,640
It almost makes it better.

181
00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:36,240
Yeah, no, that's true.

182
00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:38,120
It's a song, DaBaby.

183
00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:42,200
I'm actually a fan, I'm a huge fan of DaBaby, the rapper.

184
00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:44,600
I like his style, but I was actually doing,

185
00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:45,920
I was looking up some of the stuff

186
00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:47,200
of what he went through back in the day,

187
00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:48,720
like some of the music he made.

188
00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:52,280
And this is something he has called, I Need You.

189
00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:53,520
It's not on his platforms.

190
00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:55,720
It's like one of the songs he made back in the day

191
00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:58,920
and it was just different compared to stuff he makes now.

192
00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:00,320
I was like, that's actually really cool,

193
00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:02,400
but obviously he probably felt like he had to make

194
00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:04,680
a certain style of music to be caught on to

195
00:09:04,680 --> 00:09:06,320
for people to pick up on.

196
00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,120
But yeah, if you keep trying to adjust your music

197
00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:11,520
to everybody else's liking,

198
00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:13,640
then you're gonna put out music

199
00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:15,120
when you turn like 60 years old.

200
00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:17,840
You ain't gonna put out your first song till late.

201
00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:20,960
Well, okay, so with this EP coming out,

202
00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:23,920
now is this gonna be the first project

203
00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:25,120
that you're releasing?

204
00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:26,760
No, I've had some other projects,

205
00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:29,720
but when it comes to coming up with a plan

206
00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:31,320
and not just putting songs together

207
00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:32,640
and throwing them out there,

208
00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:34,840
this is the first project that I actually took my time on.

209
00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:38,160
And I was more strategic when it came to like

210
00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:41,280
what I was saying in my songs

211
00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:44,600
to where it's family-friendly, it's kid-friendly,

212
00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:45,920
to where you can play it anywhere

213
00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:46,920
and it's no cursing in it.

214
00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,120
So it's a clean EP

215
00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:51,160
and it should be able to be heard everywhere.

216
00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:53,160
Yep, that's really smart.

217
00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:56,400
I think some people overlook that

218
00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:00,320
they don't make the radio version of their song

219
00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:02,000
or things like that.

220
00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:04,160
So you have avoided that hurdle

221
00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:05,880
and just made like,

222
00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:09,400
if it's kind of like Calvin Harris style music,

223
00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:13,200
you want it to be as appealing to as many people as it is,

224
00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:15,080
not limited to adults

225
00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:17,280
and parents who don't wanna play it

226
00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:19,520
when their kids are around and that kind of thing.

227
00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:20,360
That's true.

228
00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:22,040
Yeah.

229
00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:44,960
With this EP coming out,

230
00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:49,720
now, if you were to have an absolute blank slate

231
00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:52,680
and I were to give you a recommendation,

232
00:10:52,680 --> 00:10:54,960
what I would say is

233
00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:58,560
pick one or two of these songs on the EP

234
00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,880
that can be lead singles initially

235
00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:05,520
that are promoted in a way

236
00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:08,320
that they're almost like a pre-save campaign

237
00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:10,600
for the whole EP itself.

238
00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,000
Because at the beginning,

239
00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:16,240
when you want this full EP out,

240
00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:18,880
you want Spotify to be playing a hand

241
00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,040
in promoting it with you.

242
00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:23,600
And if at the very beginning,

243
00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:26,760
like say it's been a while since you've released something

244
00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:28,920
or if you haven't put a lot of marketing

245
00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:31,400
into a release before this point

246
00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:33,560
or it's been a while since you have,

247
00:11:33,560 --> 00:11:38,560
if you just kind of go in cold with a full EP,

248
00:11:38,560 --> 00:11:41,680
Spotify isn't gonna really know what to do with it

249
00:11:41,680 --> 00:11:44,600
or who to place it in front of.

250
00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:48,280
Because Spotify and its algorithm

251
00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:52,240
don't work in a way where it scans your song

252
00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:56,440
and it says, oh, okay, this is 128 beats per minute.

253
00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:58,680
It's in the key of E.

254
00:11:58,680 --> 00:12:01,160
Okay, let's put it over here.

255
00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:02,800
It's all operating in a way

256
00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:05,240
where they're analyzing the data

257
00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:08,240
from the people who are listening to you

258
00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:12,560
and what patterns they can find within it.

259
00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:16,360
So they're not necessarily looking

260
00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:19,600
for who you sound similar to.

261
00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:23,360
Even if you happen to sound similar to Calvin Harris,

262
00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:27,680
Spotify isn't necessarily looking for that in particular.

263
00:12:27,680 --> 00:12:31,240
They're looking to see if the people who listen to you

264
00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:34,520
also listen to Calvin Harris.

265
00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:39,360
And let's say your audience also listens to Adele.

266
00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:44,360
Like she might not be a similar artist to you,

267
00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:49,400
but it's quite likely that if you have 100,000 listeners,

268
00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:53,200
10,000 of them might just also like Adele.

269
00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:56,640
So Spotify is kind of looking for patterns like,

270
00:12:56,640 --> 00:13:00,040
well, is it guys in their 20s in Vegas

271
00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:03,120
who are also listening to Calvin Harris?

272
00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,320
Is that who's listening to this?

273
00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:07,880
Okay, great, if so, let's show anybody

274
00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:09,920
who fits those parameters,

275
00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:14,520
let's put this song on those people's release radar

276
00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:19,160
or Discover Weekly, eventually editorial playlists.

277
00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:23,640
So if you're able to have like one single

278
00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:27,800
that is eventually going to be on the EP,

279
00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,040
if that can come out first,

280
00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:33,600
and when we start the new marketing experiment,

281
00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:35,760
we don't need to go all in at the beginning

282
00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:37,280
because we don't necessarily know

283
00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:39,040
what song is gonna work best.

284
00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:42,400
We don't necessarily know what audience we have where.

285
00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:46,480
So we can use that lead single

286
00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:49,480
as a way to start our marketing experiment,

287
00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:50,760
kind of start to figure out,

288
00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:53,360
all right, generally who's listening?

289
00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:56,240
And if we find out, okay, 30-year-olds are listening,

290
00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:59,200
well, TikTok ads might not be as important

291
00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:02,000
than if your audience were 18.

292
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,440
Or hypothetically, if for whatever reason,

293
00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:06,200
42-year-olds love your music

294
00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:09,360
because those are older than you're going after.

295
00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:15,040
If for whatever reason, based on the audience,

296
00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:18,400
we'll then set the next step of the best way

297
00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:20,720
to market to that audience.

298
00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,440
It's a thing in music why there is no clear step one,

299
00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,120
do this, every artist do this, then okay,

300
00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:27,920
step two, every artist do this,

301
00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:29,880
and it will work for everybody.

302
00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:32,720
Like assuming that your music is probably gonna be

303
00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:37,720
most resonating with 17 to 24-year-olds would be my guess.

304
00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:41,800
But even then, we don't wanna,

305
00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:44,960
if we're gonna go run a Facebook or Instagram ad

306
00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:47,440
with a new ad or for this EP,

307
00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,560
we wanna avoid going into it saying like,

308
00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:52,480
hey, Instagram, let's run this ad

309
00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:57,080
at anyone in America who likes Calvin Harris, you know?

310
00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:59,520
Because that could be 28 million people.

311
00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:04,480
And let's say even if you're spending $2,000 for the month

312
00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:07,520
on Facebook ads, which would be a pretty sizable ad

313
00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,000
for like most independent artists, right?

314
00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:12,720
But even with that advertisement,

315
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,000
if the audience is so big,

316
00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:18,400
they don't know exactly who you're actually aiming for.

317
00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:24,280
But if your ad set on any place that you advertise,

318
00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:28,880
Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, Twitter, you name it,

319
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:31,840
they're all built in a way,

320
00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:34,320
and all their ad platforms are built in a way

321
00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:38,560
where it's meant to hit a target that you give it.

322
00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:43,080
It's not necessarily designed to help you find the target

323
00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:44,760
in the first place.

324
00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:46,880
So with you, you've got a big following on your Instagram.

325
00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,360
You've probably got a lot of insights already

326
00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:51,640
about generally where your fans are,

327
00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:54,000
who's engaging with your content already.

328
00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:55,800
So that's a good place.

329
00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:57,960
It doesn't matter where you're getting this data,

330
00:15:57,960 --> 00:15:59,680
whether it's from Spotify for Artists,

331
00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:01,400
if your YouTube channel's blowing up,

332
00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:04,000
like you probably got highlights and stuff.

333
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,360
Like you have a lot of people engaging with your content.

334
00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:10,320
We just kind of want to find the sweet spot.

335
00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:12,600
And instead of saying, hey, Instagram,

336
00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:14,920
let's run this video ad at anyone in America

337
00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:17,040
who likes Calvin Harris.

338
00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:19,400
If we know that generally the people

339
00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:21,960
who are already engaging with your content,

340
00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:24,760
who are already familiar with who you're,

341
00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:27,920
like when I saw your name, it took me a minute, right?

342
00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:30,520
When I was telling you for the voice memo,

343
00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:33,760
I'm like, why does this guy's name sound so familiar?

344
00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:36,000
And then eventually it clicked.

345
00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:40,720
But that's a great example of with a casual listener

346
00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:42,200
who's going through their day,

347
00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,200
whether it's Spotify, wherever they're at,

348
00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:49,160
they might see your name and they might not know why,

349
00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:51,480
right away, why they recognize your name,

350
00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:52,560
but they'll recognize it.

351
00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:55,440
And that's like the power of attention.

352
00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:56,760
And if you don't have attention,

353
00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:59,320
you got to advertise to get attention.

354
00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:01,760
So if we find, for example,

355
00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:04,520
that your music resonates the most

356
00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:06,600
or the audience that resonates the most

357
00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:11,600
with your kind of content is mostly guys who are 18 to 24,

358
00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:15,880
but the top three or four cities are Phoenix,

359
00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:18,920
Vegas, Oakland and where.

360
00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:24,680
It's always better to double down on a smaller audience

361
00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:28,880
that you know is there and have that smaller audience

362
00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:33,040
see that advertisement multiple times

363
00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:35,840
than it is to say, let's target everyone in America.

364
00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:40,720
And even if you hit everybody, if they see it one time,

365
00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:43,000
it's very unlikely that they take action

366
00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:47,480
on whatever ad they see, even if the ad is great.

367
00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:50,760
So it's much more effective to say,

368
00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,720
instead of hitting a million people with this advertisement,

369
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:57,880
I want to hit 200,000 people five times a piece

370
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:00,320
and do it that way.

371
00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:05,320
And whether you've got information from YouTube analytics

372
00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:08,760
or your Instagram insights or Spotify for artists,

373
00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:12,240
whatever it is, I like to view all of that data

374
00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:17,240
as like a radar, not a compass.

375
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:19,640
North is always north on a compass,

376
00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:22,760
but your target audience, because it's on the internet,

377
00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:24,240
it can move around.

378
00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:27,600
If you signed with the bills tomorrow,

379
00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:31,840
like you might not be getting any clicks,

380
00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:34,080
you might not have many listeners or viewers

381
00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:35,720
from Buffalo at all right now,

382
00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:39,720
but tomorrow you might get a lot of viewers from Buffalo.

383
00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:42,680
So all of this information about your target audience

384
00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:44,760
is like radar.

385
00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:47,760
Where are the targets right now?

386
00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:50,160
I don't necessarily know where they're going,

387
00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:52,320
but right now they're right here.

388
00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:54,920
And in six months, it might look totally different,

389
00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,360
but right now for the ad that I'm gonna set up

390
00:18:57,360 --> 00:18:59,560
or for the show I'm gonna try to go book,

391
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:01,480
right now my audience is here.

392
00:19:03,360 --> 00:19:08,360
So what I would do is I would take one song from this EP

393
00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:12,920
and I would set it to come out like two months

394
00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:16,640
before the full EP is set to release

395
00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:21,640
and just start rolling out some sort of marketing experiments

396
00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:26,440
you can start making content that's all about the one song

397
00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:29,000
but then have like the secondary message

398
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,080
be like full project on the way.

399
00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:33,320
Because I'm really against the,

400
00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:37,120
it's one thing if Wiz Khalifa is making content

401
00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:40,720
about hey guys, my new album is coming out next month,

402
00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:42,000
I hope you're excited.

403
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:46,840
Like a lot of people already know that they like his music.

404
00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:50,160
So he already has a core fan base

405
00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:53,000
that I hear that message once or twice,

406
00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:55,960
it clicks great, I'm waiting for that album.

407
00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:57,840
But if you're like a new artist

408
00:19:57,840 --> 00:19:59,840
or if you're someone who's rolling out

409
00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:03,560
a new type of content, similar to you,

410
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:06,660
it's much instead of for a month and a half of hey,

411
00:20:06,660 --> 00:20:09,240
my EP is coming out soon, oh, can't wait,

412
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:11,900
hey, hope you remember this in two months,

413
00:20:11,900 --> 00:20:15,040
like hey stranger, do me a favor in two months from now,

414
00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:15,880
good luck.

415
00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:18,880
So instead if you have that one lead single

416
00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:20,880
for that two months your marketing message

417
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:24,740
can be like I'm taking my music serious to another level,

418
00:20:24,740 --> 00:20:26,960
here's the first lead single,

419
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:29,400
I hope you have fun with it, let me know what you think.

420
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,240
And then now for two months you can talk about something

421
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,920
that's there right now that that casual listener

422
00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:39,460
or someone who might be aware of you one way or another

423
00:20:39,460 --> 00:20:42,600
will now give this music a chance

424
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:44,240
and then the people who like it,

425
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,680
Spotify starts to see okay, wow,

426
00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,200
a bunch of people in their 20s in Phoenix

427
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:50,920
are listening to this guy

428
00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:53,480
and Spotify knows when your next EP is coming out

429
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:55,520
if you set it up with your distributor

430
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:57,920
and they start to like pick a target

431
00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:02,360
of where that EP is gonna start to show up on release radar.

432
00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,040
So I would approach it that way

433
00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:09,260
where in a very good way you have time on your side

434
00:21:09,260 --> 00:21:11,500
where you don't necessarily have a big audience

435
00:21:11,500 --> 00:21:15,600
like eagerly anticipating a full album.

436
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:18,320
So in a good way you can lean into that

437
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:21,880
and let's say almost like the Lil Nas X strategy

438
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:25,360
where like he had one song that just like blew up.

439
00:21:25,360 --> 00:21:29,440
He didn't like release a new EP the next month.

440
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:31,940
He milked that thing for all it's worth

441
00:21:31,940 --> 00:21:35,040
and he got seven different people to do remixes, right?

442
00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:38,440
So in a very, let's say hypothetically with the lead single

443
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:40,560
it does start to grow and it's growing

444
00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:41,920
and it's not slowing down.

445
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:45,920
You might not have to release the full EP

446
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,240
and I think that's in a good way.

447
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:50,020
If one thing is already catching

448
00:21:50,020 --> 00:21:54,700
you don't necessarily want to distract from that momentum.

449
00:21:54,700 --> 00:21:57,280
I think a lot of people in music in particular

450
00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,880
they think I've got momentum here, great.

451
00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:03,360
Well, let me just, same things bound to happen with song two

452
00:22:03,360 --> 00:22:04,300
no matter what, boom.

453
00:22:04,300 --> 00:22:07,600
And then instead of doubling down on this momentum

454
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:11,240
to take it higher, they hope for the best, they take away

455
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,360
and then, oh, this only did this much and then poof, shit.

456
00:22:14,360 --> 00:22:19,360
So with that being said, like I know you had mentioned

457
00:22:19,360 --> 00:22:21,120
you do have a lead single in mind.

458
00:22:21,120 --> 00:22:23,760
Can you tell me a little bit about that song?

459
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:25,700
The song's called My Type.

460
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,160
When I was creating it, I had everything written out.

461
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,200
I went over it, put it down on the track

462
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:34,600
and then I was like, all right, let me see

463
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:35,760
if I can stack some of these vocals.

464
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,680
So I stacked some of the vocals and they kind of like,

465
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:42,080
when I stacked them, they kind of had like a very country

466
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:44,400
feel to it and I wasn't even trying to do it on purpose

467
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:46,520
but I was like, you know what, kind of like this.

468
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:51,520
So I kept going with it and it ended up playing out perfectly

469
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:57,580
and a lot of people that I've listened to it in my circle

470
00:22:57,580 --> 00:22:59,320
listened to it and they were like,

471
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:00,160
oh, this is a good country song.

472
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,520
And I was like, I'm really going for country.

473
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:04,840
I was trying to go for pop, but all right.

474
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:09,600
So I kind of set it up to go out as a country pop song.

475
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:14,220
So yeah, it's got a nice little friendly vibe to it.

476
00:23:15,460 --> 00:23:18,320
Somewhere that you can play so it kind of brightens up

477
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,480
the vibe around the area.

478
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:22,440
I feel like when you hear it, so.

479
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:23,360
Hell yeah.

480
00:23:23,360 --> 00:23:27,600
Well, I think that's a great example of how like genres

481
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:32,120
are kind of like blending together more and more these days

482
00:23:32,120 --> 00:23:35,960
and it's kind of, if you showed Lil Nas X

483
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,560
that the old town road to a hundred people,

484
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:40,160
50 of them would tell you it was country

485
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:41,680
and 50 of them would tell you it was hip hop

486
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,520
and some might not know what to call it.

487
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,080
And I think that's like a good example where like,

488
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:51,480
you can make it, it doesn't need to be defined rigidly

489
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:52,680
into one genre.

490
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:57,000
Like if you make the music and like let people define it

491
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:58,600
for themselves.

492
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:00,280
Yeah, I mean, that's true.

493
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:01,640
It's definitely true.

494
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:03,840
Also when I hear the Lil Nas X song,

495
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:05,600
that's definitely a hip hop song for sure,

496
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:07,680
but it does have a guitar in it.

497
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:11,080
Yeah, and so you were approaching it,

498
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:12,720
you were saying like you're not really going

499
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,360
for country music, but if like,

500
00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:18,160
is it just like the way you sing

501
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:20,600
that kind of gives it the sound or is that something

502
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:22,880
like the producer kind of brought out of the song?

503
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,960
No, I just, I decided to stack the layers

504
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,200
where my voice was kind of like,

505
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,040
I had like a high, I had a mid

506
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,960
and I had like a low and like, once I heard it,

507
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,400
I was like, yeah, this is kind of country.

508
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:37,960
I mean, but I've been trying to,

509
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:42,120
if the country music fans end up picking up on it even more,

510
00:24:42,120 --> 00:24:44,760
it doesn't matter because at the end of the day,

511
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:46,640
I just definitely want to create music

512
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,960
to help people's moods, help people's day

513
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,520
and just create it, make an impact in the world

514
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:53,960
in a positive way.

515
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,280
Do you want to get to the point

516
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,360
where like you're playing festivals or going on tour

517
00:24:59,360 --> 00:25:02,280
or do you just want to, is this more like a passive thing

518
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,200
and you want to, you know, kick back

519
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,400
and just make some streaming broids, please?

520
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:07,840
No, I definitely want to do festivals.

521
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:08,920
I want to go on tours.

522
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,000
I feel like I'm really good with people,

523
00:25:12,120 --> 00:25:14,240
especially when I played in the NFL and stuff.

524
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,000
Like when I play games, I like to approach people

525
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,960
and I think my main thing to show people

526
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:21,280
is the fact that we're all the same.

527
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:22,680
Nobody's better than anybody

528
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,120
and I try to promote that when I'm around people.

529
00:25:25,120 --> 00:25:28,520
Like if I go out somewhere to a bar or a club,

530
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:30,880
I'm hanging out with the people.

531
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:32,920
I'm not in a section standing around

532
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:34,720
looking at people like I'm better than they are.

533
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,280
Like I'm always trying to be part of the people

534
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:39,120
and encourage folks.

535
00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:40,880
With that being said, like, do you,

536
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,240
would you just kind of like prefer to just blend in

537
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:48,040
or do you like it when people start to realize

538
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,920
that the former NFL, like the NFL guys here

539
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:51,880
and people start looking, like,

540
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,640
do you prefer to just kind of be kicking back or do you,

541
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:56,640
or is it kind of like, it depends on the night?

542
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:57,880
It depends on the vibe.

543
00:25:57,880 --> 00:25:59,000
It definitely depends on the vibe.

544
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:00,320
I have my days where I'm like, man,

545
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:02,320
I don't want to be seen,

546
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:04,400
so I probably stay in the house more than anything,

547
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:08,120
but it depends on how people approach me, you know?

548
00:26:08,120 --> 00:26:10,760
And it's different types of people out there, so.

549
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:12,040
Yeah.

550
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:16,320
But ultimately, I've been in a situation where I've had it

551
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:17,960
and I've been in a situation where,

552
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:19,720
I don't know, where football kind of got taken away

553
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,240
because of the situation that I was in

554
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:27,240
and man, I just, I don't know, taking a step back

555
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:29,040
and not having it for a while,

556
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,040
not having football to play for a while

557
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,160
kind of made me realize like,

558
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,280
I mean, I don't want to take it for granted.

559
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,240
If people recognize me and I can find a way

560
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,960
to change somebody's day or the momentum of their day

561
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,320
and help shift that, then I'm down,

562
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,760
like, I'm down to connect with them

563
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:49,080
and see how they did go, how their day's going, yeah.

564
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,960
Well, I think that perspective is gonna

565
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,120
definitely help you in the music business

566
00:26:54,120 --> 00:26:56,600
because I think there are so many people

567
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,880
in the music business that are in it for them

568
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:03,080
and whether it's like a sheisty manager,

569
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,920
a shady record label guy or some promoter

570
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:07,680
or even a lot of artists themselves

571
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,920
just see music as like a cash grab.

572
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,680
Yeah, I don't want to see it like that

573
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,120
because also like, I was,

574
00:27:15,120 --> 00:27:18,280
so we were playing the Kansas City Chiefs one game.

575
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:19,840
I made this shitty track.

576
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:21,280
It was, I thought it was good.

577
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,880
I had, I was so hyped about making this song,

578
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,240
recorded the song, put it out.

579
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:28,760
I didn't know about mixing and mastering.

580
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:33,320
It was a trash song, but I felt like the energy

581
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:34,920
that I put into the song was actually good.

582
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:36,280
So that's probably why it worked out.

583
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,400
So the streaming went up in it.

584
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,120
And then like, like I'm walking off the field

585
00:27:41,120 --> 00:27:43,080
at the punt in the game

586
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,400
and I hear somebody yelling my name, Marquette, Marquette.

587
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:48,880
And then I was turning around watching the game.

588
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:50,000
He was like, I got the cup.

589
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:51,480
Cause that's the name of the song.

590
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,160
I honestly feel like I appreciate

591
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:59,160
when people enjoy stuff like a song that I made

592
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,720
way more than somebody telling me that

593
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,400
you're the best punter to ever punt in the game

594
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:06,080
or playing the NFL.

595
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:06,920
Like that's cool and all,

596
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:08,760
but it was something that was created before I was there.

597
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,160
And it's cool to create something emotionally

598
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,240
and put your feelings and everything into it.

599
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:14,920
And people appreciate that.

600
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:16,560
Well, what I'm kind of thinking,

601
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:18,720
you must have a really unique perspective

602
00:28:19,120 --> 00:28:20,240
because you've heard the,

603
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:22,240
you must've heard the joke that like, well,

604
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:24,160
every athlete wants to be a musician

605
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,040
and every musician wants to be an athlete.

606
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:29,040
So, and like when you're part of a team like that,

607
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,840
and people are rooting for you,

608
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,120
they're not necessarily connecting with you.

609
00:28:35,120 --> 00:28:38,400
Like, do you feel a difference in like that,

610
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,640
the type of fan where say someone,

611
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,560
the type of fan who really wants to be an athlete

612
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:44,640
and they're like, well,

613
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:46,640
they're not necessarily rooting for you.

614
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:47,640
Do you feel like when you say someone,

615
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:52,200
the type of fan who recognizes you for the athleticism

616
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,960
and then maybe a different fan who only maybe knows

617
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,080
or connects more so with the music,

618
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,520
and like, do you notice a difference in the type of fan?

619
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:02,720
Yeah, I do.

620
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,480
But also I feel like when you're playing for a team,

621
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,280
they're cheering, they're rooting for that brand

622
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:09,680
first and foremost,

623
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,240
but also they're rooting for the person too.

624
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:13,360
And that's why, I don't know,

625
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,560
when you have a helmet, it's hard to see people,

626
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:17,280
it's hard to connect with people.

627
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:19,240
And then I felt like,

628
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,400
I mean, my personality on the field was authentic.

629
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:22,880
So like, that's just who I was.

630
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:24,560
I just love life, life's too short.

631
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,280
So I feel like the people that live life

632
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,440
are serious 24 seven,

633
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:30,960
are just not in a good place mentally

634
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:32,160
and they're scared because they're scared

635
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,160
of what other people will think about them.

636
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:36,680
But when it comes to music,

637
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:40,000
I feel like, yeah, people definitely connect with you

638
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:41,400
because they're taking time out of their day

639
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,000
to go listen to what you got.

640
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,480
But playing in the NFL and being a part of a brand

641
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:50,280
definitely helps boost the exposure that you get from people.

642
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:51,920
Yeah.

643
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:16,800
Has the NFL brand or people you've met within that network,

644
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,260
has that helped you in the music?

645
00:30:20,260 --> 00:30:22,680
Maybe say more so than someone just being like,

646
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:24,960
oh, kind of like me, like, oh, I recognize you,

647
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:29,020
but have you made connections

648
00:30:29,020 --> 00:30:31,520
that you would otherwise not have made?

649
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:33,760
I've made connections, but I wasn't,

650
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:38,480
I feel like where I was at in music at that time,

651
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:40,240
I don't think I had that mindset.

652
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:41,280
I got that mindset now.

653
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:42,360
My mindset is so different

654
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:46,040
because I've been away from the game for two, three years

655
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,760
and I don't know, now when I go back,

656
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,280
I just have a whole different mindset.

657
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,000
My mindset then when I was playing

658
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,600
was to connect with more football fans

659
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:57,960
when I should have been probably trying to build

660
00:30:57,960 --> 00:30:59,360
other stuff outside of football,

661
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,000
knowing that football wouldn't last a long time.

662
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:02,840
Yeah.

663
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:04,560
It don't last forever, so.

664
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,520
But yeah, I don't know, I feel like also in football,

665
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,240
that's another reason I approach you too,

666
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:12,760
because it's a lot of football fans out there

667
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:15,960
and they think that when they see you do that one thing,

668
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,400
they're punting, anything I did that was outside of football,

669
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:21,240
oh, you're not supposed to do that,

670
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:22,060
you're just a punter,

671
00:31:22,060 --> 00:31:23,840
you're supposed to just do this or do that.

672
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:25,360
And I'm like, what?

673
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:27,240
I didn't start out, I didn't come out the womb

674
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,000
swinging my leg, kicking football.

675
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,240
I was like, man, I got a life.

676
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,080
So a lot of people don't realize that,

677
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,800
especially sports fans, but yeah.

678
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:41,680
I think a lot of the media portrays athletes

679
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:46,920
roles that they're supposed to fit to a tee.

680
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,920
And then those roles change on either the level

681
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:54,440
of athlete you are or the position you play.

682
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:59,440
The role player on the, even a role player on the Warriors

683
00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:03,720
just can't get away with as much as Draymond can,

684
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:07,720
both with the referees, with the media, with fans.

685
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:12,760
And yeah, especially the punter position where it's,

686
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,880
like say if I'm a fan of the Raiders, right?

687
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:20,000
When like, it's weird to cheer on the punter

688
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,480
because that means the team is punting

689
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:24,080
and they didn't do so good.

690
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,080
And like, so now you're like, all right, we're punting, yes.

691
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,280
So even if though it's like a thrill to see like

692
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,760
probably the most athletic punter, right?

693
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:39,080
Like ever, like, I mean, it's punters, I don't know.

694
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,240
But no, they definitely tried to put me in a box for sure.

695
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:43,240
And that was the thing I hated.

696
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,480
I was like, man, I can't, I've had other punters

697
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:48,720
approach me in the off season when we ran into each other.

698
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,320
Man, why do you celebrate and do this and that?

699
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:53,360
You should act more like most of us.

700
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:54,920
And I'm like, I didn't grow up like y'all.

701
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:56,560
There's no way I can act like y'all.

702
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,280
So like, I don't know.

703
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:00,600
And I feel like when people used to wear my jersey

704
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,800
or still wear my jersey, it's more of a representation

705
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:05,720
of just being yourself.

706
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:07,640
Cause that's what I promote, being yourself

707
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,400
and living your life and not trying to live it

708
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,640
for other people because when we take off,

709
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,320
we all taking off solo dolo.

710
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:18,720
Ain't nobody taking off with this guy

711
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:20,760
and all his opinions about how he felt about you.

712
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:22,000
Like you going by yourself.

713
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,440
So that's what I promoted, just being yourself.

714
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:29,680
Well, I commend you for doing a lot of what you've done

715
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:31,360
in the league.

716
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:36,360
It broke the mold a little of like what people expected

717
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,120
out of that position.

718
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:45,880
Like, or even it, like what people thought

719
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,280
that position could do.

720
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,480
And that's cool.

721
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:56,240
Like regardless of anything else, that's really cool.

722
00:33:56,240 --> 00:34:01,040
And to see you go from the NFL and playing

723
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,720
at like such a high level to now like going all in

724
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:08,720
on like a full album is a pretty cool transition

725
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:12,640
that some people can't pull off.

726
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:14,400
Cause I like, you know what I'm saying?

727
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:16,920
Like there's a lot of athletes who try to do this

728
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:21,920
and then it's not, it's the same as if Takashi 69

729
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:23,760
tried out for the Jets.

730
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,440
Like it'd be the same result.

731
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:28,600
So like, I think it's cool.

732
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:30,640
And like, do you have any particular,

733
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,800
like is there any particular question I can help you with?

734
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:36,440
Let's see.

735
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:38,000
I think I just want to make sure I exhaust

736
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,480
on my opportunities to get my stuff out on ears.

737
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:46,480
Like, I feel like I could push it to a football market,

738
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:50,800
but at the same time, you're only gonna see me

739
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,840
as just being a punter and playing football.

740
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,920
So I feel like I also want to find a way to push it

741
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,560
to people who enjoy music.

742
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,920
Now, I would say that's going to be a marathon,

743
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:04,600
not a sprint, and that's okay.

744
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,920
You mentioned earlier, Kanye switching styles.

745
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:09,960
If you notice, he did that progressively.

746
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:14,400
Have you ever heard the metaphor or whatever,

747
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:19,400
where it's like, if you throw a frog into boiling water,

748
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:22,120
it'll fucking jump right out.

749
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:27,120
But if you put it in water and slowly boil it,

750
00:35:27,240 --> 00:35:30,280
it won't jump out and it'll boil and die.

751
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:35,800
So the idea is you got to like warm people up to change.

752
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,080
And Taylor Swift is another good example

753
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:39,600
of like changing her sound,

754
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,560
but she didn't go from twangy country girl

755
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:46,560
to the Shake It Off in one album.

756
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:48,080
It's a slow process.

757
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:52,480
And right now, I think it's a pro and a con,

758
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:56,080
that you're so well known for a particular thing.

759
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,760
And what you're trying to now build up awareness for

760
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,080
is a pretty different kind of thing.

761
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:07,080
But the low hanging fruit is if you get on Pat McAfee's show

762
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:13,120
and do a quick five minute thing and just plug the EP.

763
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:13,960
It's almost the same.

764
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,560
You see all these late night shows, all these interviews,

765
00:36:16,720 --> 00:36:18,720
they come on, they're just looking to make

766
00:36:18,720 --> 00:36:21,840
interesting content so they can plug their EP

767
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,040
or their book or their new movie

768
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:25,920
or whatever it is they're doing.

769
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:29,000
But right now, you just want attention.

770
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,840
And whether that attention is,

771
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:35,680
let's say like Shaq, Snoop Dogg,

772
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:39,600
like have so many different things going on

773
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,120
that like now it's kind of hard to say,

774
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:44,400
oh, Shaq is just a basketball player.

775
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,920
Snoop is just a rapper.

776
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,200
So like right now you might,

777
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:53,880
in the casual Joe Schmo mindset of America,

778
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:55,640
you might be just a punter,

779
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:59,040
but slowly you can introduce more things.

780
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:01,760
And like that's gonna take time,

781
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:06,080
but if I could give any sort of recommendation,

782
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,520
I would say lean into the attention

783
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:10,960
and the fans that are there already

784
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:15,960
and just instead of maybe sell them on your new EP,

785
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,280
just educate them that, hey, you're aware of me.

786
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:20,360
You like my message.

787
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:21,800
You're watching this interview.

788
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:24,680
By the way, something new I'm trying out is this.

789
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:25,960
And that you don't necessarily need

790
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:28,000
to like shove it down their throat,

791
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:33,000
but this almost having this EP gives you a reason

792
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,160
to like do podcasts like this and do interviews.

793
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:39,000
And maybe you talk to the local, whatever,

794
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:40,720
and then just say, hey, yeah, by the way,

795
00:37:40,720 --> 00:37:42,080
can you plug this at the end

796
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:44,080
because this is why I'm talking to you.

797
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,440
You do me a favor or I'll do you a favor

798
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:48,680
because you're gonna do, I'll do your show,

799
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:49,800
I'll do your interview, whatever,

800
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:53,520
but you do me a favor by talking about my EP in the album

801
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:57,000
and kind of slowly but surely educate that audience

802
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,040
that, hey, he's doing other things.

803
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,200
What do people do when they leave the NFL?

804
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,900
Well, here's a great example of him doing something cool.

805
00:38:04,900 --> 00:38:06,780
Like that can kind of be like the story.

806
00:38:06,780 --> 00:38:08,360
And then you can start to find other people

807
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:10,840
who've been out of the league for a year or two

808
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:12,740
and like are doing cool things.

809
00:38:12,740 --> 00:38:15,040
And then now there's a whole bunch of other content.

810
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,440
Yeah, nice.

811
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,460
But yeah, and I think slowly but surely,

812
00:38:20,460 --> 00:38:22,260
people will start to learn that you're doing both.

813
00:38:22,260 --> 00:38:24,260
And then as much as there will be an audience

814
00:38:24,260 --> 00:38:28,440
that will only ever know you for being, you know,

815
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:30,560
an Oakland Raider at the time,

816
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:33,420
eventually when you start to grow your music,

817
00:38:33,420 --> 00:38:36,120
there will be an audience that doesn't know

818
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:37,320
that you played football.

819
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:39,200
And they'll only know you from your music.

820
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:40,120
I'm waiting for that.

821
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:42,520
It's coming.

822
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:45,240
Now with this EP, do you have any visual,

823
00:38:45,240 --> 00:38:46,720
like a music video?

824
00:38:46,720 --> 00:38:48,400
Is that in the works?

825
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:49,840
I got it in the works.

826
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:53,240
My goal was to have at least,

827
00:38:53,240 --> 00:38:55,280
and I got these five songs coming.

828
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,280
Then I have another single that sounds similar

829
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,240
to the songs on the EP just to be consistent.

830
00:39:00,240 --> 00:39:05,240
And yeah, I got some more video content coming for it.

831
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:07,440
Hell yeah.

832
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:11,080
Well, what I would do is the perspective,

833
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:14,080
I'll double down to try to give you a tip if I could,

834
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,600
would be attention is what you're after.

835
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:22,100
Whether it's just about your music or about whatever,

836
00:39:22,100 --> 00:39:24,960
the thing you plug can be your EP.

837
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:28,000
But right now you're just going after attention.

838
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:32,840
And don't shy away from the low-hanging fruit

839
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:34,320
because you might think it's not,

840
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:37,200
that's not really the audience I'm going for.

841
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:39,000
Don't nitpick at the beginning.

842
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:42,880
Nitpick when you have a lot of shit going on.

843
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,920
But right now, lean into the audience you have

844
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,520
and take advantage of it and milk it

845
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:50,760
for all it's worth slowly.

846
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:52,280
It's almost like you're a company

847
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,600
that's known for Nike made running shoes.

848
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:58,560
Now all of a sudden we're making basketball shorts.

849
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:00,920
So I need to, you're used to one product,

850
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:04,440
I need to slowly educate you on this new product

851
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,880
that this brand you thought you knew so well now has.

852
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:09,920
To a lot of these casual folks,

853
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,720
you are a brand that they think they know well

854
00:40:12,720 --> 00:40:16,320
and you have this somewhat drastically different new product

855
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:18,880
which is okay, but there needs to be a little bit

856
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:22,120
of a learning curve for the folks who do know you.

857
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:25,220
That won't so much exist for folks

858
00:40:25,220 --> 00:40:28,240
who just discover you and your music together

859
00:40:28,240 --> 00:40:29,500
for the first time.

860
00:40:29,500 --> 00:40:32,020
That learning curve won't exist on that pile.

861
00:40:32,020 --> 00:40:34,100
But on this pile, it will.

862
00:40:34,100 --> 00:40:35,780
And that's okay.

863
00:40:35,780 --> 00:40:38,580
Don't avoid the low hanging fruit here

864
00:40:38,580 --> 00:40:40,620
and start at almost nothing here.

865
00:40:40,620 --> 00:40:43,140
Like you can leapfrog and get,

866
00:40:43,140 --> 00:40:45,900
if you can get 20% of this bucket over here,

867
00:40:45,900 --> 00:40:49,500
you'll have a hell of a start that most people don't have.

868
00:40:49,500 --> 00:40:51,820
I never took time to look at it like that.

869
00:40:51,820 --> 00:40:54,100
I just, cause when I first started doing music,

870
00:40:54,100 --> 00:40:56,460
like I got serious about it seven years ago.

871
00:40:56,460 --> 00:40:57,540
And then I was just like, all right,

872
00:40:57,540 --> 00:40:58,380
I'm gonna put this song out.

873
00:40:58,380 --> 00:40:59,660
I put the song out.

874
00:40:59,660 --> 00:41:03,500
When I first put it out, I had a fan base from football

875
00:41:03,500 --> 00:41:04,580
and like that was happening.

876
00:41:04,580 --> 00:41:06,700
But like I put other songs out

877
00:41:06,700 --> 00:41:07,900
and I thought you just put the song out

878
00:41:07,900 --> 00:41:08,740
and it just catches.

879
00:41:08,740 --> 00:41:12,020
But I didn't know all the other stuff that went into it.

880
00:41:12,020 --> 00:41:14,300
Then I just had the time to just do research

881
00:41:14,300 --> 00:41:16,060
and just look up how it really works.

882
00:41:16,060 --> 00:41:19,860
And it's actually a job behind it, but it's super fun.

883
00:41:19,860 --> 00:41:20,900
Yeah, it is fun.

884
00:41:20,900 --> 00:41:23,060
And I think you are right.

885
00:41:23,060 --> 00:41:27,340
The recipe for consistency is key.

886
00:41:27,340 --> 00:41:29,700
The consistency that you're going after

887
00:41:29,700 --> 00:41:34,700
is you want to consistently be generating engagement

888
00:41:35,300 --> 00:41:39,300
on Spotify or like wherever your content is, music video.

889
00:41:40,220 --> 00:41:42,700
That's the consistency you're going after.

890
00:41:42,700 --> 00:41:45,300
That doesn't mean that the only way to do that

891
00:41:45,300 --> 00:41:48,620
is with new songs all the time.

892
00:41:48,620 --> 00:41:50,460
Cause eventually you're gonna run out of songs.

893
00:41:50,460 --> 00:41:52,860
And if the only way you can get people to listen to you

894
00:41:52,860 --> 00:41:55,100
is by putting something new out,

895
00:41:55,100 --> 00:41:56,700
eventually you're gonna run out of ammo.

896
00:41:56,700 --> 00:41:59,260
You've got to find a way to get people to listen to stuff

897
00:41:59,260 --> 00:42:02,380
that's been there that, oh, I'm taking my EPs out.

898
00:42:02,380 --> 00:42:03,620
I don't have any new songs.

899
00:42:03,620 --> 00:42:06,500
I need to market this EP for a year now

900
00:42:06,500 --> 00:42:08,380
or eight months or whatever.

901
00:42:08,380 --> 00:42:12,140
So a lot of one of the things you said at the beginning,

902
00:42:12,140 --> 00:42:13,900
getting pulled in every which way,

903
00:42:13,900 --> 00:42:15,900
a lot of people online I see is like,

904
00:42:15,900 --> 00:42:18,700
well, you gotta put a song out every Friday, no matter what.

905
00:42:18,700 --> 00:42:21,220
Post on TikTok three times a day.

906
00:42:21,220 --> 00:42:23,620
And all of that is irrelevant

907
00:42:23,620 --> 00:42:26,180
if no one is engaging with the content.

908
00:42:27,340 --> 00:42:30,140
You need to find a way to get people

909
00:42:30,140 --> 00:42:33,420
to consistently engage with the content.

910
00:42:33,420 --> 00:42:36,700
And in this case, the album, the EP.

911
00:42:36,700 --> 00:42:38,580
And once you can do that, okay,

912
00:42:38,580 --> 00:42:41,700
by making a good music video and running YouTube ads,

913
00:42:41,700 --> 00:42:45,420
I can consistently create some engagement with this piece.

914
00:42:45,420 --> 00:42:47,700
And then, okay, I'm gonna run a few Instagram ads

915
00:42:47,700 --> 00:42:50,420
on top of the content I'm just gonna make organically.

916
00:42:50,420 --> 00:42:53,020
That's gonna generate a little bit of engagement.

917
00:42:53,020 --> 00:42:55,820
It's not gonna be any one magic bullet

918
00:42:55,820 --> 00:42:58,140
that gets you 100 million fans.

919
00:42:58,140 --> 00:43:02,460
It's gonna be a puzzle, a big jigsaw puzzle

920
00:43:02,460 --> 00:43:07,340
that's mixed of word of mouth, Spotify algorithms,

921
00:43:07,340 --> 00:43:11,660
YouTube, your own ads, your own organic content.

922
00:43:11,660 --> 00:43:13,780
And when all of those things work together,

923
00:43:13,780 --> 00:43:17,180
that's when you start to see that like, oh,

924
00:43:17,180 --> 00:43:20,460
and so many people go into music

925
00:43:20,460 --> 00:43:22,300
looking for the one magic answer

926
00:43:22,300 --> 00:43:25,060
or they take a master class and the guy said,

927
00:43:25,060 --> 00:43:27,620
well, I was gonna solve every problem in the world

928
00:43:27,620 --> 00:43:29,980
for 108 bucks, and then they don't.

929
00:43:29,980 --> 00:43:31,020
And then people are like, well,

930
00:43:31,020 --> 00:43:32,460
the music industry is a scam.

931
00:43:33,900 --> 00:43:34,740
So.

932
00:43:34,740 --> 00:43:36,700
I know, that's one thing that drew me to you though,

933
00:43:36,700 --> 00:43:40,580
like how, like I said, I've been dealing with people

934
00:43:40,580 --> 00:43:42,500
that have felt like they had the answers,

935
00:43:42,500 --> 00:43:44,460
even to a point to where somebody was like,

936
00:43:44,460 --> 00:43:45,900
hey, you need to listen to this style of music

937
00:43:45,900 --> 00:43:47,140
and kind of be similar to that.

938
00:43:47,140 --> 00:43:50,740
And I'm like, I will never be able to be like that

939
00:43:50,740 --> 00:43:51,820
or sound like that.

940
00:43:52,780 --> 00:43:53,700
It doesn't make sense

941
00:43:53,700 --> 00:43:55,020
because there's so many people in the world.

942
00:43:55,020 --> 00:43:58,740
So like, just listening to how you put things out there

943
00:43:58,740 --> 00:44:00,820
through social media and whatever,

944
00:44:00,820 --> 00:44:03,100
the way you describe how to get things done,

945
00:44:03,100 --> 00:44:06,180
it's almost like you ran through different parts of a maze

946
00:44:06,180 --> 00:44:09,620
and you kept pivoting to figure out the right things to do.

947
00:44:09,620 --> 00:44:13,620
And you definitely, I really admire how you

948
00:44:13,620 --> 00:44:15,820
put your stuff out there and how you see how things work.

949
00:44:15,820 --> 00:44:18,220
You understand the fact that

950
00:44:18,220 --> 00:44:19,740
everybody's their own individual.

951
00:44:19,740 --> 00:44:22,140
You understand that there is a blueprint somewhere,

952
00:44:22,140 --> 00:44:24,820
but you don't have to necessarily follow everybody else's.

953
00:44:24,820 --> 00:44:27,100
You can do it a certain way.

954
00:44:27,100 --> 00:44:28,860
So that's what I like about it.

955
00:44:28,860 --> 00:44:29,980
I really appreciate that, man.

956
00:44:29,980 --> 00:44:31,380
And thanks again.

957
00:44:31,380 --> 00:44:32,780
And it's been great talking with you.

958
00:44:32,780 --> 00:44:35,100
And I'm gonna like sleep on some ideas

959
00:44:35,100 --> 00:44:37,340
and I'll send some more ideas your way.

960
00:44:37,340 --> 00:44:38,660
I appreciate you.

961
00:44:38,660 --> 00:44:39,780
You got it, bro.

962
00:44:39,780 --> 00:44:41,180
And yeah, we'll talk soon.

963
00:44:41,180 --> 00:44:42,020
Have a good one.

964
00:44:42,020 --> 00:44:42,860
You too.

965
00:44:44,860 --> 00:44:47,980
All right, so the first athlete to come on the show,

966
00:44:47,980 --> 00:44:51,220
Mark Ed King was a punter for the Oakland Raiders,

967
00:44:51,300 --> 00:44:53,260
for the Denver Broncos.

968
00:44:53,260 --> 00:44:56,620
I don't remember exactly how many seasons he played in the NFL,

969
00:44:56,620 --> 00:44:59,620
but he has since released his album.

970
00:44:59,620 --> 00:45:01,260
And you should definitely go check it out.

971
00:45:01,260 --> 00:45:02,220
It's pretty good.

972
00:45:03,100 --> 00:45:04,100
I really liked Mark Ed.

973
00:45:04,100 --> 00:45:05,980
He's a really down to earth guy.

974
00:45:05,980 --> 00:45:07,860
And it was great helping him

975
00:45:07,860 --> 00:45:10,580
with some of his music marketing questions.

976
00:45:10,580 --> 00:45:13,020
That does it for this episode

977
00:45:13,020 --> 00:45:15,380
of the Cutting Through Podcast.

978
00:45:15,380 --> 00:45:17,140
My name is Elliot Towsley.

979
00:45:17,140 --> 00:45:21,060
Thank you so much for tuning in and supporting the show.

980
00:45:21,900 --> 00:45:24,380
Believe it or not, aside from sending me money,

981
00:45:24,380 --> 00:45:26,940
the best way that you can support the show

982
00:45:26,940 --> 00:45:30,980
is by subscribing and rating the podcast

983
00:45:30,980 --> 00:45:33,740
on your favorite streaming platform.

984
00:45:33,740 --> 00:45:37,220
And send us your questions about what type of topics

985
00:45:37,220 --> 00:45:39,420
you would like us to cover next.

986
00:45:39,420 --> 00:45:41,140
My name is Elliot Towsley.

987
00:45:41,140 --> 00:45:45,100
You can find me on Instagram at Elliot.Towsley

988
00:45:45,100 --> 00:45:47,300
or check out my company, Denovo Agency,

989
00:45:47,300 --> 00:45:50,220
where we can help entertainers and music businesses

990
00:45:50,260 --> 00:45:52,300
promote themselves online.

991
00:45:52,300 --> 00:45:54,580
This has been the Cutting Through Podcast.

992
00:45:54,580 --> 00:45:58,140
Don't forget to subscribe and we will see you next time.