Royce Da 5'9: meeting Dr. Dre, working with Eminem, and longevity in the music business

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Imagine you're standing in a room, a small room with a small stage, and you got a small

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group of people there who could be anywhere else in the world, but they got out of their

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bed to come stand there and watch you.

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That means something.

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A lot of people take that for granted because they see, they're looking at where they see

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themselves at the top of the mountain, and it makes them take for granted everything

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on the way.

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That's the beautiful part.

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So, and J. Cole told me this, you always focus on the group of people who are standing in

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front of you.

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You do not look outside of that.

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You don't think about the people who aren't there yet.

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That's literally like walking out of that room into a bigger room with nobody there.

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You leave that bigger room and come back to the small room again, those people won't be

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there.

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Appreciate those people.

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What's going on everybody?

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This is the Cutting Through Podcast where we help entrepreneurs and entertainers cut

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through the noise and more importantly, cut through the bullshit that they see online.

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My name is Elliot Towsley and I am your host.

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Today's episode, I sit down with an artist who has been in the music industry for 30

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years almost from Detroit, Michigan, Royce the Five-Nine.

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It's great to have some of your time here today.

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Thanks for having me.

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It's my pleasure.

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The goal here today is to try to learn a little bit about you, but you, for anyone who doesn't

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know, have sustained a very long career in the music industry, which is one, something

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that doesn't get as much recognition as it should, if you ask me.

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But there's a lot of insight that you have to offer artists.

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I know you're big on trying to help independent artists.

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We were talking about how the music industry is notoriously shady and murky.

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No pun intended on the shady there, but it's hard to tell what the right move might be

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as an artist.

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I'm wondering if we could start today, what year did you become a professional musician,

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what would you say?

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I want to say 99.

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99 is when I signed my first deal.

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Back then, you needed to have a record deal in order to make any moves, in order to be

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able to do anything.

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You needed to have a record deal.

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So as soon as I got that record deal, first of all, I was 20 years old.

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I thought I made it.

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You know what I mean?

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So once I got that, that was with Tommy Boy.

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It may have been 98.

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That was with Tommy Boy Records, a company called Tommy Boy Records.

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That didn't work out.

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So I ended up signing to Sony Columbia after that, a few years later.

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So it's probably been since about 98, 99.

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When you were in the market for a record deal, did you have a manager or did you yourself

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kind of go and shop yourself around or was it kind of more like, I'm just going to keep

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trying to showcase my talent and see who knocks on my door?

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Yeah, I had a manager and I was also signed to a production company.

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I had a manager and it was a production company I was signed to, who was a friend of mine,

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one of my OGs who actually, he moved to New York from Detroit, he's from Detroit as well.

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He moved to New York from Detroit and he got a job at Quest Records as an A&R.

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Okay.

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That's a big deal too, back then.

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Back then, it was like, if you knew an A&R from New York, aw man, come on, man.

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So I went out there and I stayed with him in Harlem and that was actually my first time

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being in New York.

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Okay.

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You know what I mean?

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So we lived together for months, you know, so we were able to record there.

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We recorded a full demo and what we did was we just set up meetings with every single

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label.

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So I went and seen every single label in New York and got the door slammed in my face by

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every single label.

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So I remember there was one label, I can't remember exactly what label it was offhand

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because it was so long ago, but Herbie Lovebug, OG legend, great one, responsible for Salt

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and Pepper, Kid and Play and he's a producer, writer, extraordinaire.

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So he was the only one that kind of seen the vision and he had like a subsidiary label

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through a bigger label.

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I can't remember what the big, what the label was though.

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Anyway, it'll come back to me, respect to Herbie Lovebug though.

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So I remember being on the phone with Marshall and after he told me he signed with Dre, I

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was like, that's good, man, because I'm doing the deal too.

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I'm doing a deal with Herbie Lovebug and he was like, he was like, what?

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I was like, yeah, I'm doing a deal with Herbie Lovebug.

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He was like, what kind of situation is it?

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And I was just like, you know, I explained to him the situation.

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He was like, Royce, you're not doing no deal with Herbie Lovebug.

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So he told me to send my demo out to him.

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I shot it out to him and he played it for Dre.

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And next thing you know, I flew home for something and I was at my parents crib and I just remember

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my dad walking in the room and saying, Ryan, somebody named Dr. Dre on the phone for you?

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Are you Smithson?

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I'm like, who?

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I'm like, hello?

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Yo, what's up, Dre?

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I'm like, holy shit.

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So this man didn't tell me he played it for Dre.

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This man didn't tell me that Dre liked it.

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He just let me be surprised.

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I love him.

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So anyway, Dre was like, I'm feeling your shit, man.

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I wonder, were you interested in coming out here and fucking with us?

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So I was like, what?

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I, you know, I'm in the Cali, you know.

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Yeah, he flew me out to Cali, my first time being in a mansion, my first time being around

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a celebrity, you know, because Marshall wasn't a celebrity yet.

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He was getting there.

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He was, he was getting popular fast, you know, and but Dr. Dre was, he was, he was an icon

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already.

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Oh, yeah.

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Yep.

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So damn, I'm inside this mansion, you know, that's where we're recording that.

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So long story short, we working on a chronic and, you know, I was doing some writing, you

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know, helping out where I could and just kind of like, you know, building a relationship.

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And I was, I had also recorded something for Marshall's album.

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I was appeared on his album, his first album as well.

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So his album came out and once all of the labels found out, you know, that I was out

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there working with Dre and Marshall and just kind of like a part of that team and I was

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on Marshall's album, all of them wanted to meet with me again.

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Of course.

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They wanted to do a follow-up meeting with me and I'm all excited.

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So I go and I sit down with Tommy Boy and I played them, Elliot, I want you to listen

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to me closely, my brother, I played them the exact same demo.

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I didn't change, not one line.

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I didn't add one song, the exact same demo that they passed on, I played it for them

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And they acted like it was the greatest thing that they have ever heard in their lives.

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And they gave me a million dollars.

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Imagine your dad getting a phone call from Dr. Dre and asking to speak to you.

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Once he became a millionaire, essentially overnight, I wanted to know what did he do

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with this new record deal?

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Well, you got buzz now.

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It's different.

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That's when I became a professional.

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There you go.

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So the first song you did on the Slim Shady LP, that was Bad Meets Evil, right?

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Yes, sir.

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Did you guys happen to then make the group name when you did your collab projects?

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Was that kind of like an idea from the get-go?

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Well, it was an idea from the get-go.

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So when we did Bad Meets Evil, when we recorded the original one, we recorded it in Detroit

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because we met.

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I knew him from the open mics, and he saw me performing at a show where I was open enough

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for Usher.

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And it was a cappella that I did on stage that he really liked.

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So my manager introduced us.

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He was at the show, but he wasn't performing.

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He was selling his local Slim Shady EP that he had out.

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He had a booth set up, and he was selling the cassette tape.

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And I already knew who he was, you know what I mean?

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After Infinite?

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After Infinite.

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Got it.

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So you already know where I'm at with it.

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I'm a fan already.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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OK.

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I've seen him perform at the Ebony Showcase.

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I've seen him perform Infinite at the Ebony Showcase.

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And me and my wife looked at each other like, oh, fuck!

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So we met each other.

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He was like, yo, man, yo, that a cappella.

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And I was just like, yo, I already know who you are.

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You know what I mean?

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So we met.

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We chopped it up for a minute.

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And then I would say probably two weeks later, we got together and recorded Bad Mi Sifu.

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Wow.

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A few conversations later, that's when we had the landlines.

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You know what I mean?

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Like we had the landlines, and we were just on the phone a lot, just talking about hip

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hop shit.

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We started to realize how much each other had in common.

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So he showed up to my man Ivy Studio, who I still deal with to this day.

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And shit, we did Bad Mi Sifu to the original track, which was a Dr. Seuss produced song.

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And then once he signed his deal, he had like a myriad of songs with a bunch of different

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Detroit artists.

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And I guess him and Dre, Bad Mi Sifu was the only one that they felt like should be on

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the album.

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So I made the cut.

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So when that happened, I had to go out to Cali to re-record the vocals anyway.

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So when I went out there, that's when we really bonded.

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That's when me and him really bonded, because he was staying out there.

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He was by himself.

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I think he had Kim and the baby out there.

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They were kind of back and forth, but him and Proof wasn't speaking at the time for

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some reason.

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They brothers, so you know, they used to have moments.

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So it was like he needed a hype man.

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You know, I was there.

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We just bonded.

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So that's pretty much how it happened.

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So we re-recorded it.

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He produced a new one.

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Him and his production company that he was signed to at the time, they reproduced it

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and I recut the vocals and that was it.

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You know, I just kind of lucked up, I guess, because when we did the song initially, we

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were just making it.

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We were just making some demo shit.

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Neither one of us was thinking about getting a record deal.

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Neither one of us was looking at it like that, you know?

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What was the line you have in that song?

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You're like, play Chicken with the Devil and see which one will swerve first.

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It was like, I can't remember exactly what the line was, but yeah, you're right.

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Something like that.

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Something like that.

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Oh, man.

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OK.

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And so then, like, all of a sudden, that's actually, in a way, a really good, like, representation

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of even back then, like, like you said, you played the record company the same demo.

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The talent was equal, but now all of a sudden, you've got some buzz.

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I think maybe the way that that looks has changed, but the type of scenario it is hasn't

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really changed in the music industry.

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You could be the most, you could have the most talented demo they've ever heard, but

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all of a sudden, when you got buzz is now when they're, you know, unfortunately, that's

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how it is.

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It's actually intensified.

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Yeah.

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OK.

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Because think about it, man.

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This is a self-preservation business.

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Nobody's going to put their shit on the line for you.

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You know, so there's a lot of people who can find talent.

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There's a lot of people who knows talent when they hear it, but do they want to do they

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want to sacrifice?

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Do they want to put their job on the line?

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Right.

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Why would you put your job on the line when you can just find somebody who's done all

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the work already, somebody who's done all the heavy lifting already?

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And I feel like if you can go into the situation understanding that, you won't hate it.

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You won't.

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You won't.

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Because that bitterness, you know, the fear of like the big bad record label, you know

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what I mean?

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The way that the record label is so stigmatized, there's nothing wrong with doing a record

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deal, man.

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Yeah.

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There's something wrong with signing a bad deal.

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And you can't look to them for fairness.

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This isn't fair.

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It's not a fair business.

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You have to know.

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You have to take in as much information as possible.

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And if you don't, that's fine, too.

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00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:07,180
You just learn through trial and error.

241
00:13:07,180 --> 00:13:12,000
But as long as you understand that, then it's OK, because you got to embrace the L's, man.

242
00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:13,000
The L's.

243
00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,120
The L's are great, man.

244
00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:17,760
You got to take losses.

245
00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:18,760
That's how you learn.

246
00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:19,760
Definitely.

247
00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:25,320
You know, if you never, if you're never failing, that means you're not trying anything new

248
00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:27,240
and you're not growing.

249
00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:28,240
That's it.

250
00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:29,240
So that's what I tell my son.

251
00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:31,560
My son's my son's an artist and a producer.

252
00:13:31,560 --> 00:13:36,640
I tell him, make some mistakes, make them, get them out of the way early.

253
00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:37,640
Yes.

254
00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:43,360
You know, once you become wise, then you'll you'll be able to keep those to a minimum.

255
00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:47,440
And that's what life, that's what life is about.

256
00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:49,980
On a personal level, I'm a huge Eminem fan.

257
00:13:49,980 --> 00:13:55,960
So this was like something my teenage self would be really excited about.

258
00:13:55,960 --> 00:14:01,520
And for the reason you're here listening to this podcast, voice has some great insight

259
00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:07,360
on why you should be OK with taking L's.

260
00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:08,840
Let me get your take on this.

261
00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:09,840
That's a good.

262
00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:14,000
It's similar to how sometimes with artists that I work with, you know, I work with independent

263
00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,560
artists who take their music seriously.

264
00:14:16,560 --> 00:14:21,720
They want to grow their business and they might they have like solid music.

265
00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:27,040
But when it comes to putting them the marketing hat on, they don't really know what to do.

266
00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:31,320
And with any business, not just music, like when you're rolling out a new business or

267
00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:34,480
a new product, like you're going to make mistakes.

268
00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:35,480
Nobody does that.

269
00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:37,240
And that's a thousand every time.

270
00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:41,560
You know, Mark Cuban does not start a new business and make zero mistakes.

271
00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:44,640
Like what happens when you're trying new things.

272
00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:51,480
But a lot of artists, when they're going through this, this marketing experiment, they're trying

273
00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,120
to figure out how to market their music.

274
00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:59,840
They're doing it on the fly with new music rather than saying, all right, I've got five

275
00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:04,040
songs in my back pocket and new music is not the problem.

276
00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:05,040
I have new music.

277
00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:06,040
I have plenty of music.

278
00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:10,040
The problem is I can't figure out how to get people to listen to my music.

279
00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:14,360
And what I try to get across to some artists is like, well, instead of just throwing shit

280
00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:19,320
out all the time and like hoping for the best, like, why don't we work with some of the music

281
00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:21,520
you have that's already available?

282
00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:26,160
And if we're going to make mistakes either way, let's make them with songs that are already

283
00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:29,400
out and about so that we don't bet a thousand here.

284
00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:32,760
But when it is time to release something new, we've made the mistakes.

285
00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:33,880
We know what we're doing.

286
00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:36,120
We know generally how we're going to market it.

287
00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:38,360
And now we're not on the fly.

288
00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:39,720
Oh, here's a new song.

289
00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:40,720
Oh, shit.

290
00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:41,720
It's been three Fridays.

291
00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:43,000
I guess I need a new song for some reason.

292
00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:44,000
Here you go.

293
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:45,000
Yeah.

294
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,720
When they think like that, I think that they're and that's a cool way to think.

295
00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:53,680
You just have to understand when it's time for you to focus on the consistency of your

296
00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:55,880
music releasing.

297
00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:59,200
Because before that, before that step, you don't want to skip steps.

298
00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:03,320
So before that steps, there's a bill to get to that step, right?

299
00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:08,400
You know, when you're at that step, when people are expecting your music, that's when you

300
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:13,000
focus on consistency, but you have to build some sort of base first.

301
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:15,200
And music is a very unique thing, man.

302
00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:20,000
You can't really compare it to anything else that's being marketed on planet Earth.

303
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:21,000
Yep.

304
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:26,960
It's a different kind of drug in the kids that are really winning are the most unique

305
00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:32,360
thinking kids, the ones that don't look outside of themselves for every single thing.

306
00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:38,640
The better understanding that you have of self and of your music and of your base, the

307
00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:41,840
better you'll understand how to speak to that base.

308
00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,440
Everything is just about speaking to the people who are there.

309
00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:46,080
I always use this analogy.

310
00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:53,040
Imagine you're standing in a room, a small room with a small stage, and you got a small

311
00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:57,760
group of people there who could be anywhere else in the world.

312
00:16:57,760 --> 00:16:58,760
Yep.

313
00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:02,960
But they got out of their bed to come stand there and watch you.

314
00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:04,240
That means something.

315
00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:08,640
A lot of people take that for granted because they see, they're looking at where they see

316
00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:14,120
themselves at the top of the mountain, and it makes them take for granted everything

317
00:17:14,120 --> 00:17:15,400
on the way.

318
00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:17,160
That's the beautiful part.

319
00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:22,960
And J. Cole told me this, you always focus on the group of people who are standing in

320
00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:23,960
front of you.

321
00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,520
You do not look outside of that.

322
00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:30,080
You don't think about the people who aren't there yet.

323
00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:35,360
That's literally like walking out of that room into a bigger room with nobody there.

324
00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:37,320
Because it's a bigger room.

325
00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:38,320
Yes.

326
00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:39,320
Right.

327
00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:42,520
You leave that bigger room and come back to the small room again, those people won't

328
00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:43,520
be there.

329
00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:46,320
Appreciate those people.

330
00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:53,960
Because if you speak to them, and as long as you deliver every time you promise something,

331
00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:58,080
you deliver the quality of music that you promised them.

332
00:17:58,080 --> 00:17:59,320
Think about McDonald's.

333
00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:08,220
Think about all of these companies who, they're not selling Big Macs because of quality.

334
00:18:08,220 --> 00:18:11,600
People are paying, number one, because they're delivering what they promised.

335
00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:17,360
They're promising a fat, nasty burger that's going to give you indigestion.

336
00:18:17,360 --> 00:18:21,520
You know that you're going to get indigestion, but you go pay for the convenience because

337
00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:24,120
you can probably give them $5 to $10.

338
00:18:24,120 --> 00:18:27,200
You're going to get changed back, probably late for work.

339
00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:28,960
You want to get something real quick.

340
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:30,480
You don't have to get out of your car.

341
00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:32,000
You can go to the drive-through.

342
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:36,360
You're paying for convenience, and McDonald's is a billion-dollar company because they provide

343
00:18:36,360 --> 00:18:37,360
that.

344
00:18:37,360 --> 00:18:40,880
Now, if you go to Morton Steakhouse or something like that, then you're going to expect a different

345
00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:42,160
kind of quality.

346
00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:46,760
They're also very successful because they provide that quality.

347
00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:47,760
They don't look at McDonald's.

348
00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:50,440
McDonald's don't look at them.

349
00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:55,160
Each company is very, very successful because they understand who they are.

350
00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:56,400
You know what I mean?

351
00:18:56,400 --> 00:19:02,280
So Morton's is not looking at McDonald's like, damn, man, I should get some little burgers,

352
00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:03,280
you know what I'm saying?

353
00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:06,720
And they're not looking at Morton's going, damn, we should add steak to the menu because

354
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,920
they know that's not what they do, and they don't need to.

355
00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:14,440
The second they start fucking around with the formula is when they fall off.

356
00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:16,400
That's the beginning of the end.

357
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:19,880
So you don't have to look outside yourself, outside of yourself.

358
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:26,880
You know, like kids like XXXTENTACION and these kids like NBA Young, bro, they don't

359
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:30,680
think about the shit that everybody's talking about.

360
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:32,760
They don't.

361
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:36,280
Because it's not really important because there's no set way to do it.

362
00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:38,080
The key is to find your way.

363
00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:39,080
Exactly.

364
00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:46,320
And they advise you based off of their experiences, and what they're telling you is true.

365
00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:50,760
But what you have to do is take in that information and figure out how you apply that information

366
00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:52,960
to your own unique journey.

367
00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:58,080
You go into a store, you see products on the top shelf.

368
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:01,800
That means it's the leading product, and then you see a whole bunch of shit just like it

369
00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,160
on the shelves under it.

370
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:10,160
Those companies make less, but they're still, I guess, considered successful.

371
00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:11,480
What do you want to be?

372
00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:15,400
Do you want to be the top shelf, or do you want to be the shit that's making a living

373
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,080
off of just copying everything that you see?

374
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,280
Think about all of the classic albums that we've seen in history.

375
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:22,280
Think about The Chronic.

376
00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:23,280
Think about Equimini.

377
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:28,520
None of these albums that went down in history as anything special have ever been anything

378
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:32,240
like their counterparts, anything like their contemporaries.

379
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:35,800
There's always been something different, something that's not to camouflage.

380
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:42,800
So when people tell artists anecdotal things like, yo, you got to pay attention to what's

381
00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:46,440
out because you got to make something that's current for the time, yo bro, classics are

382
00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:48,640
not current.

383
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:49,640
Classics are forever.

384
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:51,200
You know what I mean?

385
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,600
You get out there and you mimic something and you decide to be the camouflage, then

386
00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:56,320
how are you going to cut through the noise?

387
00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:00,080
You got to figure out a way to be new, to be first, to be new.

388
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:01,080
You know what I mean?

389
00:21:01,120 --> 00:21:04,120
And then on the flip side to that, there's a lot of very, very successful people who

390
00:21:04,120 --> 00:21:07,760
just look at what's out there, mimic it, and just keep doing that.

391
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,280
It just depends on what you want from it.

392
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:11,280
You know?

393
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:20,120
In music and in business, there is no step-by-step formula to success that works for absolutely

394
00:21:20,120 --> 00:21:21,120
everyone.

395
00:21:21,120 --> 00:21:27,000
The ones who do find success are the ones who are able to define what they want to offer

396
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,080
and who they want to offer it to.

397
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:40,120
I think it's so different now, I think, because for so long, just in hip-hop or rap, I think

398
00:21:40,120 --> 00:21:49,480
the goal of artists was to be the best, most talented rapper ever.

399
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:56,320
I think it's shifted where that doesn't matter.

400
00:21:56,320 --> 00:22:03,960
I think rappers went from making music for hip-hop heads to trying to appeal to as many

401
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,160
people everywhere.

402
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:13,040
Instead of being polarizing, as talented as Eminem was, a lot of his success at the beginning

403
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,560
was because it was polarizing.

404
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:20,000
Some people hated the content, and that just drew more interest.

405
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:21,920
He didn't try to appeal to everybody.

406
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:26,080
He purposefully didn't want to appeal to a certain audience, right?

407
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:33,680
Rappers in particular, I think pop music has always tried to be super mellow and in the

408
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:35,840
middle and try to appeal to everybody.

409
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:36,840
PC, yeah.

410
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:37,840
Yeah.

411
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,280
A lot of hip-hop has gotten to that.

412
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:46,520
There's always been certain spots of hip-hop that were the fun dance party songs.

413
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:54,000
In terms of the rappers, I could not tell you the underground scene in battle rappers.

414
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:59,120
When I was in middle school and high school, a long time ago now, there was a separate

415
00:22:59,120 --> 00:23:02,920
scene of underground rappers who wanted to be the best rappers.

416
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:03,920
That's it.

417
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:04,920
They didn't care about being on the radio.

418
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:10,520
I don't know if I'm just old and out of touch, but it seems that hip-hop has become more

419
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:12,720
of pop music.

420
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:16,480
Yeah, because we dominated.

421
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:17,480
We dominated.

422
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:18,480
We the number one genre.

423
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:19,480
We the number one genre.

424
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:21,600
What you just described is absolutely correct.

425
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:24,560
There's evolution.

426
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:30,800
Because of the internet, man, it's so easy to access anything that you want to hear.

427
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:32,880
The underground battle rap, they're still out there.

428
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:34,160
They're still there.

429
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:36,920
That's never really existed on a mainstream platform anyway.

430
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:37,920
That's true.

431
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:45,280
Now I'm wondering, in such a PC world that we live in, a great battle rap line might

432
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:46,280
be really offensive.

433
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:47,280
That's the point.

434
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:49,960
That's the point.

435
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:56,680
Now I'm wondering, we see a lot of comedians getting in trouble now, getting canceled.

436
00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:00,760
Has some of that, I wonder if some rappers are afraid to be like, oh, I can't use that

437
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:01,760
line.

438
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:02,760
Yeah.

439
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:03,760
But you can't use certain lines.

440
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:04,760
Yeah.

441
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:05,760
You know what I mean?

442
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:07,760
You just got to be careful.

443
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:12,080
You got to follow the ways of the world and understand how to read the room.

444
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,000
You know what I mean?

445
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,240
This is how I always look at it as a creator.

446
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,440
I look at it like there's targets that I'm trying to hit.

447
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:25,760
If I'm creatively not trying to offend you and you get offended, that's not your fault.

448
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:27,120
That's my fault.

449
00:24:27,120 --> 00:24:28,600
I miss my shot.

450
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:32,600
It could just be slightly to the left that I miss the bullseye, but I try to hit the

451
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:33,600
bullseye every time.

452
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:38,360
If I want to offend you and you get offended, then boom, mission accomplished.

453
00:24:38,360 --> 00:24:39,920
You know what I mean?

454
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:41,080
Some rappers are subliminal.

455
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:42,760
Some people are too sensitive.

456
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,940
You have to consider all of these things when you're creating.

457
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,780
If controversy is your thing, you got a such thing as a good controversy and bad controversy.

458
00:24:50,780 --> 00:24:55,140
There was a point in time where we got told that all press is good press.

459
00:24:55,140 --> 00:24:56,140
That's not true.

460
00:24:56,140 --> 00:24:57,140
Not anymore.

461
00:24:57,140 --> 00:24:58,140
No, no.

462
00:24:58,140 --> 00:24:59,140
That's not true.

463
00:24:59,140 --> 00:25:00,140
That's not.

464
00:25:00,140 --> 00:25:04,660
There's some people from a moral standpoint that you don't want to offend.

465
00:25:04,660 --> 00:25:05,660
Right and wrong.

466
00:25:05,660 --> 00:25:06,660
Period.

467
00:25:06,660 --> 00:25:07,660
You know what I mean?

468
00:25:07,660 --> 00:25:15,380
If you know, you walk in, you tread water on sensitive lines, don't fucking say it.

469
00:25:15,380 --> 00:25:16,380
You know what I mean?

470
00:25:16,380 --> 00:25:20,580
Because it's almost like if I'm doing an interview with you and you tell me I can't curse, I

471
00:25:20,580 --> 00:25:23,620
don't leave the interview and be like, yo, he ain't going to let me curse.

472
00:25:23,620 --> 00:25:28,260
It's like, bro, I have enough words in my lexicon to where I can fucking speak without

473
00:25:28,260 --> 00:25:29,260
fucking cursing.

474
00:25:29,260 --> 00:25:32,940
You know what I mean?

475
00:25:32,940 --> 00:25:35,020
So it's like, I'm not going to play myself.

476
00:25:35,020 --> 00:25:36,500
I'm not going to limit myself.

477
00:25:36,500 --> 00:25:41,060
There's some platforms that if I go sit on, I may not watch Wendy Williams all the time,

478
00:25:41,060 --> 00:25:45,340
but when I did her show, yo, I respected the platform and I was honored to do it.

479
00:25:45,340 --> 00:25:46,340
Right.

480
00:25:46,340 --> 00:25:47,340
You know what I mean?

481
00:25:47,340 --> 00:25:49,060
I realized it's a mainstream platform.

482
00:25:49,060 --> 00:25:51,780
Mainstream media has never really been cool to me.

483
00:25:51,780 --> 00:25:52,780
You know what I mean?

484
00:25:52,780 --> 00:25:58,620
But it's necessary because I went on there to talk about an album that was my self-defining

485
00:25:58,620 --> 00:26:04,060
album called Book of Ryan and I wanted as many people as possible to get the message

486
00:26:04,060 --> 00:26:07,100
that I was sending because I felt like that it would touch people.

487
00:26:07,100 --> 00:26:09,100
I felt like that it would help people.

488
00:26:09,100 --> 00:26:13,300
So I felt like the mainstream is not always the enemy.

489
00:26:13,300 --> 00:26:14,300
You know what I mean?

490
00:26:14,300 --> 00:26:15,700
It just depends on how you use it.

491
00:26:15,700 --> 00:26:20,060
If you utilize the platform to do something that is good, then cool.

492
00:26:20,060 --> 00:26:25,220
If you utilize it to make a fool of yourself, then you know, that's kind of you.

493
00:26:25,220 --> 00:26:28,420
You know what I mean?

494
00:26:28,420 --> 00:26:30,020
Respecting the platform.

495
00:26:30,020 --> 00:26:36,620
You have to know the medium you're trying to use to reach an audience and the rules

496
00:26:36,740 --> 00:26:39,940
that that medium might be playing by.

497
00:26:39,940 --> 00:26:46,060
Knowing how to use these platforms is what separates those who win and those who don't.

498
00:26:46,060 --> 00:26:50,820
Well, I think that's a really good point.

499
00:26:50,820 --> 00:26:55,500
I think it's almost like, you know, when an actor, when they're like going for the Oscar,

500
00:26:55,500 --> 00:26:58,620
they like literally have to campaign for it.

501
00:26:58,620 --> 00:27:01,940
They have to go kind of play the game and as much as they don't want to, like they got

502
00:27:01,940 --> 00:27:04,940
to go shake the hands and kiss the babies.

503
00:27:05,380 --> 00:27:06,540
Some people are good at it.

504
00:27:06,540 --> 00:27:08,580
Some people are good at it and look forward to it.

505
00:27:08,580 --> 00:27:10,220
Yeah, I admire those people.

506
00:27:10,220 --> 00:27:13,420
I feel like that's a talent, you know, it absolutely is.

507
00:27:13,420 --> 00:27:19,340
And I think nowadays, like with the as much content as there is on YouTube and Instagram,

508
00:27:19,340 --> 00:27:24,820
like as many people like Wiz Khalifa because he's funny and because he seems like a cool

509
00:27:24,820 --> 00:27:28,180
guy as much as another audience likes his music.

510
00:27:28,180 --> 00:27:33,500
Like now more than ever, you can kind of be an average musician.

511
00:27:33,500 --> 00:27:38,500
But if you're a cool person, people will just they just like you.

512
00:27:38,500 --> 00:27:40,060
And he's a weed smoker.

513
00:27:40,060 --> 00:27:41,260
Yeah, right. Right.

514
00:27:41,260 --> 00:27:43,860
We just we just like to equalize it, bro.

515
00:27:43,860 --> 00:27:47,860
It's the equalizer. You know, I mean, I wish I wish, you know, I'm sober.

516
00:27:47,860 --> 00:27:51,540
So I don't touch any stimulant, any stimulant.

517
00:27:51,540 --> 00:27:52,900
And I don't drink, you know what I mean?

518
00:27:52,900 --> 00:27:58,700
So but I always look at my little brother's weed head and people love him.

519
00:27:58,700 --> 00:28:01,020
People love him because you look at Snoop.

520
00:28:01,020 --> 00:28:02,380
Yeah. Oh, yes.

521
00:28:02,380 --> 00:28:05,020
Who is more adored than Snoop in hip hop?

522
00:28:05,020 --> 00:28:06,940
I am a big hip hop fan and I love Snoop.

523
00:28:06,940 --> 00:28:10,340
And I could not tell you the name of maybe his last four albums.

524
00:28:10,340 --> 00:28:12,380
And but that don't matter. Right.

525
00:28:12,380 --> 00:28:14,260
Oh, yeah. You know what I'm saying?

526
00:28:14,260 --> 00:28:20,180
Like perfect example is probably one of the most famous people on Earth.

527
00:28:20,180 --> 00:28:22,220
The most recognizable.

528
00:28:22,220 --> 00:28:24,060
He has to be the most recognizable.

529
00:28:24,060 --> 00:28:26,060
But think about how much branding he's doing.

530
00:28:26,060 --> 00:28:28,500
You know, I mean, like that man can sell anything, man.

531
00:28:28,500 --> 00:28:30,300
Like I just I admire that.

532
00:28:30,300 --> 00:28:32,300
I admire somebody who can start.

533
00:28:32,300 --> 00:28:36,020
They can start their platform at such a street level.

534
00:28:36,020 --> 00:28:39,060
You know, he was a straight up gang member. Oh, yeah.

535
00:28:39,060 --> 00:28:43,180
Caught a murder case, man. You don't even think about that no more.

536
00:28:43,180 --> 00:28:45,380
He almost went to prison for it.

537
00:28:45,380 --> 00:28:47,580
People forget about that.

538
00:28:47,580 --> 00:28:50,700
It's like now it's just Snoop. It's just Snoop Dogg, man.

539
00:28:50,700 --> 00:28:53,300
You can put him you can put him in the White House, man.

540
00:28:53,300 --> 00:28:56,100
He could stand next to Joe Biden and he would look out of place.

541
00:28:56,100 --> 00:28:59,820
And one of the things this is tying back to like Wendy Williams

542
00:28:59,820 --> 00:29:03,900
or like a mainstream media Snoop Dogg at 10 o'clock in the morning.

543
00:29:03,900 --> 00:29:07,860
Snoop Dogg could do Wendy Williams and talk to like that audience.

544
00:29:08,060 --> 00:29:14,100
Then he could go and talk to like some young guys from the streets.

545
00:29:14,100 --> 00:29:16,340
And you can talk to straight up gang members on a corner

546
00:29:16,540 --> 00:29:20,340
and then get out on any corner in any state in the country.

547
00:29:20,660 --> 00:29:23,420
Yeah. And you know how to it's not like he changes who he is.

548
00:29:23,420 --> 00:29:25,660
He just knows his audience.

549
00:29:25,660 --> 00:29:28,260
He could talk to like, you know, the guys on the street.

550
00:29:28,260 --> 00:29:29,900
And then he could talk to my mom.

551
00:29:29,900 --> 00:29:32,140
And both of them would love.

552
00:29:32,140 --> 00:29:34,060
You know who else was like that?

553
00:29:34,060 --> 00:29:36,500
Tupac Shakur, Tupac Shakur, man.

554
00:29:36,500 --> 00:29:39,900
He didn't he didn't break himself up into into different people.

555
00:29:39,900 --> 00:29:42,420
He didn't say, you know, I'm going to make my chick record now.

556
00:29:42,420 --> 00:29:44,660
And I'm going to make, you know, man, he'd be right in the middle

557
00:29:44,660 --> 00:29:46,260
of rapping to the girls on a song.

558
00:29:46,260 --> 00:29:49,780
And then he'd just start dissing somebody like he just didn't get that.

559
00:29:49,780 --> 00:29:53,140
Like, you know, did you ever meet him?

560
00:29:53,700 --> 00:29:57,700
No, he was he was just a little before my time when I when I jumped out there.

561
00:29:57,700 --> 00:29:59,540
He was he had already passed, unfortunately.

562
00:29:59,540 --> 00:30:02,380
You know, I didn't get to meet him or be.

563
00:30:02,380 --> 00:30:04,500
But they were like, you know, in high school.

564
00:30:04,500 --> 00:30:06,620
That's that's I was. Oh, yeah.

565
00:30:06,620 --> 00:30:08,460
I worshiped him in high school.

566
00:30:08,460 --> 00:30:12,380
You know, I think a lot of people forget he was like from Baltimore.

567
00:30:12,380 --> 00:30:17,260
Right. And then he like got Pac was a I want to say Pac was from like

568
00:30:17,260 --> 00:30:19,500
Jersey or New York.

569
00:30:19,500 --> 00:30:21,700
And then he moved out west.

570
00:30:21,700 --> 00:30:23,980
Yeah. Well, stayed in the bay for a period of time.

571
00:30:23,980 --> 00:30:27,020
So, yeah. And then like when he got out of jail,

572
00:30:27,020 --> 00:30:28,780
like should night got him out of jail. Right.

573
00:30:28,780 --> 00:30:31,300
And then all this then like, boom, you're on death row.

574
00:30:31,300 --> 00:30:33,900
Like right now, because like that's part of something.

575
00:30:33,900 --> 00:30:35,660
I believe it was something. It was something like that.

576
00:30:35,660 --> 00:30:38,060
I don't like to misquote them, but yeah, I believe it was something

577
00:30:38,060 --> 00:30:40,060
something similar, something close to that.

578
00:30:40,060 --> 00:30:43,020
It's really interesting how like when you think of West Coast rap,

579
00:30:43,020 --> 00:30:47,780
you probably think of NWA and Tupac and Snoop and Snoop.

580
00:30:47,780 --> 00:30:48,860
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

581
00:30:48,860 --> 00:30:54,340
And and Pac for being so well known for that area isn't even from there.

582
00:30:54,380 --> 00:30:58,340
And like he already had a bit of a career before he got there.

583
00:30:58,700 --> 00:31:03,100
But he had he had an amazing career before he got there because he was already acting.

584
00:31:03,620 --> 00:31:08,740
Yep. He he was doing he already had a couple of classic albums under his belt, too.

585
00:31:08,740 --> 00:31:11,500
Well, that's arguable. But I feel like they were all classics.

586
00:31:11,500 --> 00:31:13,700
You know, I could just be a Pakistan.

587
00:31:13,700 --> 00:31:17,900
But well, that I mean, you can see that change in his sound when like,

588
00:31:18,260 --> 00:31:22,660
you know, he met Dr. Dre, like all of a sudden he was like, man,

589
00:31:22,660 --> 00:31:27,140
this West Coast sound is is like something I can make my own in a way.

590
00:31:27,300 --> 00:31:31,340
And dope. I mean, yeah, that's where California love came from.

591
00:31:31,700 --> 00:31:34,300
Yeah. Oh, yeah. It was originally a Dr. Dre song.

592
00:31:34,820 --> 00:31:37,020
And I think they convinced him to give it to Pac.

593
00:31:38,140 --> 00:31:40,580
And that's how they ended up on the song with each other.

594
00:31:40,580 --> 00:31:43,180
Was that the first one they ever did?

595
00:31:43,180 --> 00:31:45,140
I don't know if it's the first one that they did,

596
00:31:45,140 --> 00:31:49,100
but I think it's the first one that they released prior prior to Pac's

597
00:31:49,100 --> 00:31:51,180
release from from prison.

598
00:31:51,180 --> 00:31:54,220
That's got to be the top five best hip hop song of all time.

599
00:31:54,700 --> 00:31:58,460
God, you know, man, everything, everything Dr. Dre

600
00:31:59,980 --> 00:32:03,860
turns into a lifelong attachment.

601
00:32:04,340 --> 00:32:07,020
Yeah, I'm attached to his entire body of work.

602
00:32:07,300 --> 00:32:10,900
Oh, you know, so when I was a sophomore in high school,

603
00:32:10,900 --> 00:32:12,420
I weighed more than I do now.

604
00:32:12,420 --> 00:32:15,540
And I had long, bushy, goofy hair.

605
00:32:16,180 --> 00:32:20,140
And I my school picture is me in a T-shirt

606
00:32:20,140 --> 00:32:22,740
with the chronic on it. Hell, yeah.

607
00:32:24,060 --> 00:32:25,580
I like I'll have to find it.

608
00:32:25,580 --> 00:32:27,620
But like smoking yet.

609
00:32:27,620 --> 00:32:30,420
No, that was the funny thing. I wasn't even smoking yet.

610
00:32:31,540 --> 00:32:35,260
The chronic was like it was just I grew up in New Hampshire

611
00:32:35,260 --> 00:32:37,740
and like I was like the class clown white kid.

612
00:32:37,740 --> 00:32:40,740
So it was like funny that I was like into gangsta rap.

613
00:32:40,740 --> 00:32:43,860
But like I was super into like

614
00:32:44,420 --> 00:32:49,420
Illmatic 36 Chambers, the chronic like I was a big Eminem fan.

615
00:32:51,140 --> 00:32:54,500
All right. Well, that is quite enough about me in high school.

616
00:32:55,780 --> 00:32:58,860
Talking with Royce, the five nine was really cool

617
00:32:58,860 --> 00:33:01,740
because I was genuinely a fan

618
00:33:01,740 --> 00:33:05,140
and knowing that he's worked with so many artists in hip hop.

619
00:33:05,140 --> 00:33:07,500
I wanted to know if he was missing any.

620
00:33:10,980 --> 00:33:13,380
One of the questions I wanted to ask you was, I know you've

621
00:33:13,380 --> 00:33:16,500
you've worked with Rick Ross, Pusha T, Eminem.

622
00:33:16,500 --> 00:33:19,500
You've worked with DJ Premier, Jake Hull.

623
00:33:19,540 --> 00:33:24,060
Like, is there someone that you've been wanting to work with

624
00:33:24,060 --> 00:33:27,300
that you haven't got the chance or like the scheduling hasn't worked?

625
00:33:27,780 --> 00:33:29,220
Yeah, Kendrick Lamar.

626
00:33:29,220 --> 00:33:31,100
We can't seem to get that get that right.

627
00:33:31,100 --> 00:33:33,740
But hopefully, hopefully the hip hop guys

628
00:33:34,500 --> 00:33:38,140
will be looking down on us one of these days and I'll catch him when he's free

629
00:33:38,140 --> 00:33:39,900
or he'll catch me when I'm free.

630
00:33:39,900 --> 00:33:41,620
But I would love to work with Kendrick.

631
00:33:41,620 --> 00:33:43,660
I feel that there's a lot of a lot of similarities.

632
00:33:43,660 --> 00:33:45,940
I love the way he thinks. I love what he represents.

633
00:33:46,420 --> 00:33:49,220
I think he's an amazing person and artist.

634
00:33:49,300 --> 00:33:51,820
You know, I would love to work with Jay-Z.

635
00:33:52,260 --> 00:33:53,860
Jay-Z is one of my idols.

636
00:33:53,860 --> 00:33:56,380
You know, you know, Nas.

637
00:33:56,380 --> 00:33:57,860
I still haven't worked with Nas.

638
00:33:57,860 --> 00:34:00,260
You know, that that's kind of like a bucket list for me.

639
00:34:00,940 --> 00:34:04,580
I could see you and Nas doing something even like today.

640
00:34:05,100 --> 00:34:06,580
Me and Nas could do anything together.

641
00:34:06,580 --> 00:34:09,820
Definitely. Yeah, it's like, absolutely, absolutely.

642
00:34:09,820 --> 00:34:13,180
But, you know, I'm not like, like a feature

643
00:34:13,540 --> 00:34:16,140
guy where it's like, I don't go in the studio and think of like,

644
00:34:16,140 --> 00:34:18,300
who can I put on this song?

645
00:34:18,300 --> 00:34:21,220
You know, I like to let them let them happen organically.

646
00:34:21,220 --> 00:34:23,740
And I'm not much of the politicking.

647
00:34:24,060 --> 00:34:26,860
Yeah. Guy, you know,

648
00:34:26,860 --> 00:34:30,220
I have a network and I have resources and I love, you know,

649
00:34:30,220 --> 00:34:31,580
I love dealing with good people.

650
00:34:31,580 --> 00:34:33,940
I love being around smart people.

651
00:34:33,940 --> 00:34:38,060
I love shooting around ideas and I love being on my business.

652
00:34:38,060 --> 00:34:42,060
I love business. You know, I mean, you know, the music side of it,

653
00:34:42,060 --> 00:34:46,620
the creativity part of it has become so second nature over the years.

654
00:34:47,220 --> 00:34:50,380
You know, I feel like I can I can give it to you however you want it.

655
00:34:50,380 --> 00:34:50,980
You know what I mean?

656
00:34:50,980 --> 00:34:54,740
And I just I like to step in and speak when it's my turn to speak.

657
00:34:54,740 --> 00:34:56,780
I don't I'm not one of those guys who's like

658
00:34:57,420 --> 00:34:59,900
who's going to be in his 50s forcing his raps on you.

659
00:35:01,460 --> 00:35:02,460
You know what I mean?

660
00:35:02,460 --> 00:35:06,620
So so, you know, like I'm I just feel like if you keep working on self,

661
00:35:06,620 --> 00:35:11,140
if you keep improving on self and there's always more to learn,

662
00:35:11,180 --> 00:35:13,860
you know, and knowledge of self is the most important thing,

663
00:35:13,860 --> 00:35:18,340
because if you can improve on you, then everything about you will improve,

664
00:35:18,340 --> 00:35:19,860
including the music.

665
00:35:19,860 --> 00:35:23,020
You know, one of the biggest misconceptions in this shit

666
00:35:23,380 --> 00:35:26,860
is that you got to just keep rap, rap, rap, rap, rap all the time.

667
00:35:27,020 --> 00:35:28,580
Otherwise, you're going to fall off.

668
00:35:28,580 --> 00:35:30,660
You never fall off if you keep working on yourself

669
00:35:30,660 --> 00:35:34,020
because you you have things just near and dear to your heart to express.

670
00:35:34,460 --> 00:35:35,900
Right. Yeah.

671
00:35:35,900 --> 00:35:38,620
And how to express that is just comes with repetition again.

672
00:35:38,620 --> 00:35:40,500
So you can get in and be rusty.

673
00:35:40,500 --> 00:35:43,260
I've gotten in and, you know, felt a little bit rusty.

674
00:35:43,260 --> 00:35:46,220
But, you know, we we dust the rust right off. Right.

675
00:35:46,260 --> 00:35:48,780
You know, like that's just like riding a bike. Right.

676
00:35:49,020 --> 00:35:52,260
Somebody made you ride a bike for 10 years straight every single day.

677
00:35:52,500 --> 00:35:53,980
And you can finally get off that bike.

678
00:35:53,980 --> 00:35:56,580
You probably wouldn't even look at the bike again for another couple of years.

679
00:35:57,620 --> 00:36:00,100
I'm trying to point during that time, if somebody said

680
00:36:00,100 --> 00:36:03,580
they needed you to ride that bike, but you need them to tell you how to

681
00:36:03,580 --> 00:36:07,060
or would you be worried about balance or, you know, I mean,

682
00:36:07,060 --> 00:36:10,020
like all of that shit, just it's just a part of it, you know?

683
00:36:10,860 --> 00:36:13,940
Well, you mentioned you don't like to get in the politics of it.

684
00:36:13,940 --> 00:36:14,820
And I don't blame you.

685
00:36:14,820 --> 00:36:17,020
That's all the minutiae.

686
00:36:17,340 --> 00:36:21,820
But I have a question with the caterpillar song you did with M

687
00:36:22,260 --> 00:36:25,780
that then had the remix with logic.

688
00:36:26,300 --> 00:36:30,380
Was that something that like you had like logic you had planned and then M heard

689
00:36:30,380 --> 00:36:31,900
it was like, man, I got a fucking rap on this.

690
00:36:31,900 --> 00:36:34,180
And then you're like, oh, shit.

691
00:36:34,180 --> 00:36:36,460
Or was that just like, oh, how did that?

692
00:36:36,460 --> 00:36:39,420
Because logic, I did get the logic verse first. Mm hmm.

693
00:36:39,540 --> 00:36:41,660
I figured. Yeah, yeah.

694
00:36:41,660 --> 00:36:42,820
I got the logic verse first.

695
00:36:42,820 --> 00:36:46,340
I can't remember why I had the logic verse first

696
00:36:46,340 --> 00:36:48,380
because I always wanted it to be a remix.

697
00:36:48,380 --> 00:36:51,340
But you know what, Ellie, I do remember

698
00:36:52,380 --> 00:36:56,140
I wanted logic for the remix and I wanted him on the main version.

699
00:36:56,140 --> 00:36:59,940
But logic sent his verse before him did his got it.

700
00:37:00,340 --> 00:37:03,260
And I remember that because I remember playing it for Marshall

701
00:37:03,260 --> 00:37:05,700
because Marshall was like, I want to hear what he did.

702
00:37:05,700 --> 00:37:06,860
And I played it for me.

703
00:37:06,860 --> 00:37:07,780
He was like, all right, dope.

704
00:37:07,780 --> 00:37:10,020
So, all right, I got an idea of what I need to do.

705
00:37:10,020 --> 00:37:11,580
So he went in there and knocked it out for me.

706
00:37:11,580 --> 00:37:13,820
I think we were traveling together at that time.

707
00:37:13,820 --> 00:37:18,340
Is that what partially led to and working with logic?

708
00:37:19,020 --> 00:37:21,660
Because then after that, after the remix came out,

709
00:37:21,660 --> 00:37:25,900
then he did the thing on logic's album where it was the ticket ticket ticket.

710
00:37:27,260 --> 00:37:28,740
You know what led to that?

711
00:37:28,740 --> 00:37:31,540
Paul was running Def Jam at that time.

712
00:37:32,180 --> 00:37:34,140
Oh, and logic was on Def Jam.

713
00:37:34,140 --> 00:37:35,620
Yeah, logic's on Def Jam.

714
00:37:35,620 --> 00:37:38,980
And I think I want to say logic opened up

715
00:37:39,100 --> 00:37:41,620
one of the shows for Marshall that he did, I think Wembley.

716
00:37:42,220 --> 00:37:44,020
And they met backstage.

717
00:37:44,020 --> 00:37:45,700
That was their first time meeting backstage.

718
00:37:45,700 --> 00:37:46,740
And I was there.

719
00:37:46,740 --> 00:37:50,300
I was there. It was a cool meeting, you know, because logic was just really fanned out.

720
00:37:50,300 --> 00:37:54,460
And I say this in a respectful way, really fanned out.

721
00:37:54,740 --> 00:37:56,980
And these are his words, by the way, logic knows, as he said.

722
00:37:57,700 --> 00:37:59,260
So he was like, really fanned out.

723
00:37:59,260 --> 00:38:01,700
And Marshall was like, really uncomfortable

724
00:38:01,700 --> 00:38:04,620
because he doesn't like people being fanned out for whatever reason. OK.

725
00:38:05,300 --> 00:38:06,980
That was the beginning of the relationship there.

726
00:38:06,980 --> 00:38:09,620
And I think he has a pretty good relationship with Paul as well.

727
00:38:10,220 --> 00:38:13,540
So I don't really know how it happened from there.

728
00:38:13,540 --> 00:38:17,260
But I know one day we were in the car and Marshall was like, check this out.

729
00:38:17,260 --> 00:38:19,660
And he played it. And it was a logic song. It was fire, you know.

730
00:38:19,660 --> 00:38:23,900
So I want to say it was a combination of them meeting at the show,

731
00:38:24,540 --> 00:38:27,900
Paul's relationship with logic, logic's value at Def Jam.

732
00:38:28,220 --> 00:38:30,660
Yep. Yep. He was able to make it happen.

733
00:38:30,860 --> 00:38:34,420
So right. Well, because I know just from the outside looking in,

734
00:38:34,420 --> 00:38:37,860
like Paul and then aren't just going out doing verses with anybody

735
00:38:38,220 --> 00:38:40,300
just for the hell of it. Absolutely.

736
00:38:41,980 --> 00:38:45,620
Yeah. Logic had to almost like, you know, prove himself a bit, I'm sure.

737
00:38:45,620 --> 00:38:48,220
Yeah. Because, you know, logic is a big dog. He's a big dog.

738
00:38:48,220 --> 00:38:50,780
Right. Yeah. Well, I mean,

739
00:38:51,580 --> 00:38:53,980
I mean, I've had a great time chatting with you.

740
00:38:53,980 --> 00:38:55,340
Yeah. Likewise, man.

741
00:38:55,340 --> 00:38:59,780
Is there anything, is there any like tip or like red flag something,

742
00:39:00,100 --> 00:39:02,020
a piece of advice you'd like to pass along?

743
00:39:03,020 --> 00:39:05,220
Stay positive. Stay positive.

744
00:39:05,220 --> 00:39:10,220
Just try to. And I know that that sounds anecdotal and it sounds like cliche.

745
00:39:11,060 --> 00:39:15,780
Try to show up in life as your highest as your highest self every day.

746
00:39:16,420 --> 00:39:19,700
It's not going to happen, but try, you know what I mean?

747
00:39:19,700 --> 00:39:23,900
Because there's energies that can bring you down to a lower frequency.

748
00:39:23,940 --> 00:39:27,260
You know what I mean? And if you allow that to happen, that can turn into

749
00:39:27,780 --> 00:39:30,300
spurts of unproductivity, you know what I mean?

750
00:39:30,540 --> 00:39:34,020
Because it happens to me, even in my 40s, it still happens to me,

751
00:39:34,020 --> 00:39:37,740
even with all of the self care and all of the advice that I give.

752
00:39:37,740 --> 00:39:41,820
It's not always as easy to walk it as it is to talk it, you know?

753
00:39:42,180 --> 00:39:43,900
And I'm speaking for myself.

754
00:39:43,900 --> 00:39:47,980
I'm speaking from my own experiences, you know?

755
00:39:48,540 --> 00:39:52,540
So I think being positive is something that you have to kind of set out to do

756
00:39:52,540 --> 00:39:55,900
sometimes. I mean, you can be a naturally positive person,

757
00:39:56,380 --> 00:39:59,820
but there's always negativity that can that can flip you off

758
00:39:59,820 --> 00:40:01,260
your path real quick, you know what I mean?

759
00:40:01,260 --> 00:40:04,020
So it takes effort. It takes effort.

760
00:40:04,020 --> 00:40:08,740
You know, like I always like to say, like, as peaceful of a man as I am today,

761
00:40:09,220 --> 00:40:11,060
I went to war for this piece.

762
00:40:11,060 --> 00:40:13,580
Yeah, with the war to be this way, I fought for it.

763
00:40:13,620 --> 00:40:14,220
You know what I mean?

764
00:40:14,220 --> 00:40:17,340
So I want you to kind of adopt the same philosophy

765
00:40:17,700 --> 00:40:21,220
and just try to tune out the things, because all of this shit is like

766
00:40:21,220 --> 00:40:22,420
one big clout chase now.

767
00:40:22,420 --> 00:40:23,900
So a lot of kids are getting into it,

768
00:40:23,900 --> 00:40:26,060
thinking that they need to subscribe to the bullshit

769
00:40:26,620 --> 00:40:28,980
in order to gain attention.

770
00:40:28,980 --> 00:40:31,780
But really, it's all going to revert back to the music anyway.

771
00:40:32,180 --> 00:40:36,500
You can be the most popular person in the world from because of bullshit.

772
00:40:36,820 --> 00:40:39,780
But if you deliver great music, it's just going to go away.

773
00:40:40,420 --> 00:40:43,580
So put all of that effort into the music, you know, and just try to be

774
00:40:43,580 --> 00:40:47,540
as the best that you can be in terms of a practitioner.

775
00:40:47,860 --> 00:40:50,380
You know, try to be try to be that because

776
00:40:50,620 --> 00:40:53,180
contrary to popular belief, the greatest rappers in the world

777
00:40:53,180 --> 00:40:55,140
are the biggest rappers in the world.

778
00:40:55,140 --> 00:40:58,580
Drake, Kendrick, Eminem, Future, J.

779
00:40:58,580 --> 00:41:00,140
Cole, Lil Baby.

780
00:41:00,140 --> 00:41:02,900
You thought that's the top six right there.

781
00:41:02,900 --> 00:41:06,060
You know, I mean, all of them are lyricists. Yep.

782
00:41:06,420 --> 00:41:09,860
The only one you can argue is future and future is brilliant at what he does.

783
00:41:10,100 --> 00:41:13,580
He may not emphasis on putting the words together,

784
00:41:13,900 --> 00:41:16,540
but he puts things together.

785
00:41:16,540 --> 00:41:19,740
And there's a lot of future replicas out there that are really bad,

786
00:41:19,740 --> 00:41:21,060
but not future, bro.

787
00:41:21,060 --> 00:41:22,700
You put a little Wayne in there.

788
00:41:22,700 --> 00:41:23,700
Hell yeah.

789
00:41:23,700 --> 00:41:24,980
Lil Wayne, Kanye.

790
00:41:24,980 --> 00:41:26,380
Oh, Kanye.

791
00:41:26,380 --> 00:41:27,860
Have you worked with Lil Wayne?

792
00:41:27,860 --> 00:41:30,780
There was a stint where he worked with everybody.

793
00:41:30,780 --> 00:41:32,020
Worked with Lil Wayne, but that's something.

794
00:41:32,020 --> 00:41:35,700
He's another bucket list that another bucket list for me.

795
00:41:35,700 --> 00:41:37,940
I love Wayne. I love Wayne.

796
00:41:37,940 --> 00:41:39,380
Nicki Minaj, too, man.

797
00:41:39,380 --> 00:41:41,900
I hate when we don't name women.

798
00:41:41,900 --> 00:41:43,020
You know, Nicki Minaj.

799
00:41:43,020 --> 00:41:45,620
I love Cardi. I love Rapsody.

800
00:41:45,620 --> 00:41:47,300
I love. He's dope.

801
00:41:47,300 --> 00:41:48,580
Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean?

802
00:41:48,580 --> 00:41:51,060
So it's like it's a it's a whole lot going on out there.

803
00:41:51,220 --> 00:41:52,460
You know what I mean?

804
00:41:52,460 --> 00:41:54,540
Well, before I let you go, I got to let you know that

805
00:41:54,900 --> 00:41:59,580
the Shady Cipher 2.0 is maybe my favorite thing from you.

806
00:42:00,220 --> 00:42:01,260
Oh, thank you, man.

807
00:42:01,260 --> 00:42:04,300
That thing. Do you guys really do all that in one take?

808
00:42:05,180 --> 00:42:06,740
No. Who said that?

809
00:42:07,420 --> 00:42:09,540
Does each person go and then?

810
00:42:09,540 --> 00:42:13,580
Yeah, each person just keeps doing retaking until they feel that they have it

811
00:42:13,580 --> 00:42:15,940
and then he goes to the next person. Yeah.

812
00:42:15,940 --> 00:42:17,420
Oh, well, they make it look like it's all.

813
00:42:17,420 --> 00:42:20,020
Man, if you guys really did bang all that out in like six minutes.

814
00:42:20,500 --> 00:42:23,140
Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

815
00:42:24,020 --> 00:42:27,940
Well, I can only find it on Vimeo for some reason.

816
00:42:27,940 --> 00:42:29,420
I can't find it anywhere.

817
00:42:29,420 --> 00:42:32,180
I saw a real bad YouTube link of it one time. Yeah.

818
00:42:32,780 --> 00:42:34,300
Yeah. Where is this at?

819
00:42:34,300 --> 00:42:35,900
Why is it not? I don't know.

820
00:42:35,900 --> 00:42:37,700
I don't know. I couldn't tell you, bro.

821
00:42:37,700 --> 00:42:39,500
I'm sorry. One last follow up question.

822
00:42:39,500 --> 00:42:42,900
I was looking for the old bar exam tapes.

823
00:42:43,540 --> 00:42:45,900
Do you have like a go to website where I can find those?

824
00:42:46,260 --> 00:42:47,380
Try that PIF.

825
00:42:47,380 --> 00:42:50,580
Try that PIF. Listen to four.

826
00:42:51,260 --> 00:42:53,020
Listen to four. That's my favorite one.

827
00:42:53,020 --> 00:42:54,740
OK. Mm hmm.

828
00:42:54,740 --> 00:42:57,660
That's I think was like the first thing when I like was in high school

829
00:42:57,660 --> 00:43:00,260
and I dug into who Royce the Five Nine was.

830
00:43:00,260 --> 00:43:01,780
That's what I kept finding.

831
00:43:01,780 --> 00:43:05,180
Yeah. The the bar exam series gave birth to Royce.

832
00:43:05,180 --> 00:43:07,940
I don't give a fuck. Five nine.

833
00:43:07,940 --> 00:43:11,820
I mean, like that's that was like me at my drunkest,

834
00:43:11,820 --> 00:43:13,300
but I was I was slick with it.

835
00:43:13,300 --> 00:43:16,580
You know, I mean, bar exam four is the sober one.

836
00:43:17,180 --> 00:43:19,580
Bar exam four is just lyrically stellar.

837
00:43:19,580 --> 00:43:21,540
Like the day that we put that out, I'll never forget.

838
00:43:21,900 --> 00:43:23,980
The day that we put it out was the same day that

839
00:43:24,980 --> 00:43:27,220
it was announced, the prodigy pass.

840
00:43:27,220 --> 00:43:29,540
And it all happened at the same time.

841
00:43:29,540 --> 00:43:32,660
And I was not about to be that guy promoting something.

842
00:43:32,940 --> 00:43:35,820
Why that's going on, you know, I mean, so.

843
00:43:35,820 --> 00:43:38,020
It kind of went under the radar.

844
00:43:38,020 --> 00:43:42,340
You know, just in just in contrast to what the expectation that I have for it.

845
00:43:42,700 --> 00:43:45,860
Yeah. It's really good. It's really good.

846
00:43:45,900 --> 00:43:47,100
I want you to listen.

847
00:43:47,100 --> 00:43:47,820
Check that one out.

848
00:43:47,820 --> 00:43:49,660
Tell me what you think when we talk next.

849
00:43:49,660 --> 00:43:51,740
Oh, yeah, absolutely. I'm happy to do that.

850
00:43:52,620 --> 00:43:54,460
Royce, thank you so much for the time, man.

851
00:43:54,460 --> 00:43:56,740
I really appreciate you giving me some insight

852
00:43:56,740 --> 00:44:00,220
and peeling back the curtain of some of my favorite music.

853
00:44:00,220 --> 00:44:01,300
It's been great.

854
00:44:01,300 --> 00:44:02,980
My brother, it's always a pleasure to talk to you.

855
00:44:02,980 --> 00:44:05,620
And thank you for all of the sound advice that you give to the young.

856
00:44:06,340 --> 00:44:08,300
Peace and love, bro. Take care, man.

857
00:44:10,140 --> 00:44:11,380
I'm really not trying to flex,

858
00:44:11,380 --> 00:44:14,380
but the coolest thing about this whole podcast

859
00:44:14,380 --> 00:44:18,380
with Royce the Five Nine is he reached out to me and wanted to do this.

860
00:44:19,020 --> 00:44:19,940
It was pretty cool.

861
00:44:19,940 --> 00:44:23,740
That's what can happen if you make solid content on Instagram.

862
00:44:24,260 --> 00:44:26,940
If it's helpful, you never know who might find it.

863
00:44:27,540 --> 00:44:33,300
I think he offered a lot of good insight about trying to identify

864
00:44:33,620 --> 00:44:39,020
who you are, what mood you're trying to sell as an artist

865
00:44:39,300 --> 00:44:43,500
and trying to identify who you're trying to sell it to.

866
00:44:44,420 --> 00:44:47,300
You're trying to be top shelf or bottom shelf.

867
00:44:47,700 --> 00:44:49,060
It's all right.

868
00:44:49,060 --> 00:44:55,060
But you have to know how to use the platforms and respect the platforms.

869
00:44:55,780 --> 00:44:56,780
All right, everybody.

870
00:44:56,780 --> 00:45:01,220
That does it for this episode of The Cutting Through Podcast.

871
00:45:01,540 --> 00:45:03,340
My name is Elliott Towsley.

872
00:45:03,340 --> 00:45:06,700
Thank you so much for tuning in and supporting the show.

873
00:45:07,260 --> 00:45:10,340
Believe it or not, aside from sending me money,

874
00:45:10,580 --> 00:45:14,660
the best way that you can support the show is by subscribing

875
00:45:14,820 --> 00:45:19,700
and rating the podcast on your favorite streaming platform

876
00:45:19,940 --> 00:45:23,460
and send us your questions about what type of topics

877
00:45:23,460 --> 00:45:25,580
you would like us to cover next.

878
00:45:25,580 --> 00:45:27,340
My name is Elliott Towsley.

879
00:45:27,340 --> 00:45:31,100
You can find me on Instagram at Elliott dot Towsley

880
00:45:31,300 --> 00:45:35,180
or check out my company, Denovo Agency, where we can help entertainers

881
00:45:35,180 --> 00:45:38,060
and music businesses promote themselves online.

882
00:45:38,460 --> 00:45:40,460
This has been The Cutting Through Podcast.

883
00:45:40,700 --> 00:45:44,180
Don't forget to subscribe and we will see you next time.