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And honestly, man, what you have to understand as an artist is nobody owes you anything.

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So you're worth some or you're worthless, but you gotta be worth it or you're worthless.

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Like you're wasting time.

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So make sure that you, like you said, you have to bring value.

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Why should these people who are already in position, they're already in their spots.

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Why should they even, you know, give you anything like, well, how can you help increase their

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business?

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How can you breathe add value to their business?

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What's going on everybody?

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Welcome back to the Cutting Through podcast where we help entrepreneurs, entertainers,

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business owners, or anybody just interested in cutting through some of the bullshit that

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everybody sees and hears on social media these days.

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My name is Elliot Towsley and I am your host.

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Today's guest is a artist who has found tons of success both in the music industry and

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entertainment.

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He has acted in movies and hit TV shows and he's been on tour with people like Twista

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and I think he's performed with 50 Cent.

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So I'm really excited today to talk to a former client of mine way back in the day.

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He has done a lot on his own.

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I had very little to do with it, but he'll talk about that in the interview.

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Let's welcome today's guest, Mario Cannon.

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Mario Cannon, how are you my man?

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I wanted to start off today by saying that you and I started working together at DeNovo

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Agency.

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I went back and looked.

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We started in April of 2020.

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We did a handful of campaigns, I think we did five or six different campaigns.

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But I remember when you came to us, you might have had 40 or 50,000 followers at the time.

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And I went to check today and you have like just under 800,000.

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So congratulations on all the growth you've had since I first crossed your path.

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But you are doing a lot of cool things that I think artists would love to learn about.

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You're an actor, you're a businessman, you're a fitness aficionado and you're a musical artist.

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So I'm excited to talk about all the different successes you've had.

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I did have a personal request today to ask, with your experience on Empire, do you know

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50 Cent?

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Well, 50 Cent, he didn't have anything to really do with Empire, I don't think, he's

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power.

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The crazy thing is about that is I actually did meet 50 Cent and I've actually auditioned

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a lot for Power and I've come real close to actually be on that show.

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But yeah, I met 50 Cent, I actually opened up for 50 Cent in Chicago.

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That's cool.

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So you're from Illinois, so what was that like?

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You must have grew up listening to 50.

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He was a huge part of hip hop when I was growing up.

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So what was that like opening and performing with someone who was like a legend when you

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were a teenager?

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I mean, honestly, man, it was incredible, man.

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And the experiences, you don't experience it till you experience it, right?

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It's one thing to watch it on YouTube, but when you're in these people's presence, you

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understand why they're in the position they're at.

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They give off an aura.

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You can just tell that they work so hard.

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And I think that just experiencing it alone, just being there was incredible.

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But I got to shake his hand and say, what's up, Tom?

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You know, it was cool as shit, man.

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It was right. It was personal, but it was dope.

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What was like the first moment that you had where because I think for so long you're in

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like hip hop or any genre, you're first like a fan.

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When what when did these folks start to feel more like peers rather than just like the

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artists you used to look up to?

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Or is it still kind of a mix of both?

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It's a mix of both still.

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I'm still a fan, man, because I love the art.

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And a lot of times when I record music, I just record it for myself.

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I don't really care if it's like trendy or whatever.

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I just do what I feel.

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What I like music.

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But I'm yeah, I'm still a fan.

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But when I say when I did become a kind of a peer was when I went on tour with Twista

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and people started to know me by my first name, they already knew me.

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And I was like, oh, I was like, oh, oh, shoot.

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Like, man, I'm a peer.

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Like, you know, me, like, right.

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You know, when Ludacris, when he thought he was like, oh, what's up, little Mario?

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I already know about you, man.

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You do your thing. I was like, yeah, you know, it was kind of it was kind of like

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surreal. It was cool.

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That is surreal.

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Like to have a Ludacris know you on a first name basis is man.

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Ludacris, 40, 40 knew who I was, bro.

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It was like, and this is my first time meeting me 40, you know, too short.

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Everybody, man, you know, this is crazy.

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That is crazy. And I think so.

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What year did you graduate high school?

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Man, I graduated high school a long time ago, bro.

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My old school, man, back in 2000.

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I was 2010, 2010.

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OK, yeah, yeah.

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That was like when Ludacris.

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I think it was like a year after Ludacris did Theater of the Mind,

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where he did that record with Lil Wayne.

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And what else was on the album?

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That album was awesome.

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I used to bump that all the time going to high school.

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And if Ludacris was like, oh, what's up, Elliot?

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That would be a really surreal moment.

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Ludacris is from Illinois.

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And OK, and he grew up there and then he went to Atlanta, got his sound.

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We have mutual, we have we have mutual relationships.

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It's crazy how connected we were.

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When I was on this trailer, we talked about some things

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and we had some people who were connected to.

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And it was just crazy how close we were

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just in our relationships with different people,

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with him being from Champaign.

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Have you seen content online of anybody talking about

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how the five closest people to you

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start to shape a lot of who you are and how you act?

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I think Mario is a great example

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of having a network around you that can multiply

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what it is you've got going on.

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And I think he illustrates the power of a network

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and how you can get that network to work for you.

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But let's dive a little bit more into the personal story

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of how Mario built this network and used it

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to create some success for himself.

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Speaking of that, like how much now that you've made so many

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different moves in in different industries.

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A lot, obviously, a lot of that is because you're super talented.

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But I'm wondering what percentage would you give

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to like your skill of networking, of like being able to,

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one, get in the room with somebody like Ludacris,

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but then like strike it up and like have that conversation

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where he knew you because you were working with somebody.

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How much of that like skill of networking

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would you say is is partly responsible for where you're at now?

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I want to say like 90 percent. Right.

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So like and when I say we say networking, I'll tie it in with business.

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Have your business in order in your presentation.

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That's 90 percent, man.

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Being able to hold a conversation is and be able to be likeable and personable,

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be able to be yourself, man, and learning the ropes,

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learning when and not to fan out, how to stay calm, how to stay poised.

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It's all a major part of the game.

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But yeah, I'll say 90 percent, man.

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It's all about your networking. Yeah.

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That's pretty crazy.

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I think I think in a way that's a pretty humble answer,

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because I think a lot of musicians or in any sort of business would be like, no,

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it's my own skill.

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I'm very much responsible. It's my own talent.

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But it's like that is very much part of it.

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But like if you can't play that game, regardless of if you're an actor,

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a business owner, a musician, there is an element of a game

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being played where you need to bring value to someone else

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in order to get value in return.

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I think a lot of folks misunderstand networking for like saying,

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huh, hey, I'm Elliott. See you later.

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Like that's not networking.

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No. Like, you know what I'm saying?

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That's really interesting.

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I think folks can definitely learn from,

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especially from like your perspective of the networking is 90 percent

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of the game, perhaps.

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And honestly, man, what you have to understand as an artist

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is nobody owes you anything.

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So you're worth some or you're worthless.

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But you got to be worth it or you're worthless.

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Like you're wasting time.

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So make sure that you, like you said, you have to bring value.

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Like, why should these people who are already in position?

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They're already in their spots.

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Why should they even, you know, give you anything?

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Like, how can you help increase their business?

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How can you add value to their business?

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And I think you had you mentioned a key ingredient.

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Do people like working with you?

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Unless you are the top one percent of your field,

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if you're an asshole, people are not going to work with you.

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I think like a great example, even to a degree,

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could be like somebody like Kyrie Irving is so talented.

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But there's a point where if he's just not getting along with people

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and he's hard to deal with, they're they're kind of done with them,

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even if he's the best point guard in the league,

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even if you're one of the best musicians out there.

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If people don't enjoy working with you, whether it's a record label exec

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or it's a producer, an audio engineer, other artists,

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that eventually is going to compound and you're going to kind of be like,

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on an island with your ego.

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And that's it. Yeah.

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I mean, you just want it's hard that you want good people.

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Now, if you're coachable, then we can build.

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We can create the talent that, you know, you might be lacking in some areas.

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But when you can't teach, you can't teach, you know, character.

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If your character is flawed, man, then, you know, by all means, man,

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you know, I pray that, you know, you try to improve on that.

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But it's something that, you know,

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that's very important that you can't teach, man.

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And you're going to have character, you know.

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I agree. And it reminds me of that saying

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hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.

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Similar kind of thing where like, yeah, you got you can be skilled.

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But like, you know, Larry Bird could beat Isaiah Thomas,

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maybe not because he was more talented, but maybe work harder.

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Who knows something like that?

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Maybe not the best example.

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But one of the songs I wanted to ask you about,

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because it struck a chord with me yesterday when I was listening to it.

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It's called Rich in Pain.

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Yeah. And it came out last year.

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And it seemed like a lot of the songs that I listened to yesterday and today,

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you were telling some sort of story or had like some sort of.

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Moral or message behind it, where it wasn't all just like braggadocious.

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Yeah. But this song in particular kind of struck a chord with me.

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And I was wondering if if you don't mind, could we talk just a little bit about

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like what your writing process was for that song?

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Because it seemed to be a slightly different tone than some of the other songs.

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And I'm wondering what got you to that spot to make that song.

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Rich in Pain is exactly what it sounds like.

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I'm rich in pain.

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I smile a lot.

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And, you know, my presentation is great on social media,

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but I carry a lot of pain, carry a lot of baggage from being where I'm from.

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And I lost a lot of people I love.

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And I was dealing with a lot at that time in the industry

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because I had so many people, quote unquote, in my corner.

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So, you know, when you start to reach different levels,

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you got new devils, new levels are new devils.

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And the devils come, they come disguised as friends, supporters,

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people who pretend like they care.

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And they're all, it's all transactional.

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And when you realize these relationships are transactional,

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you'll get a rich in pain.

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Right.

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And so, so I had to, I just put it all on the song, man.

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The tone was different, the flows were different because I love drill beats.

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But I love drill beats.

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But I love drill beats, the UK and New York drill beats,

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because I want to give them a different energy on those type of beats

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and not be violent, but actually just have real substance.

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So that's what Rich in Pain was about, man.

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It was about, you know, me carrying weight while dealing with fake love

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and still being able to create. Right. Yeah.

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Everybody loves you. Right.

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The minute you say no to something, that's when they judge you.

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That's when all the truth comes out.

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Tell somebody no and they'll tell you their true feelings about you.

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You know.

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You get all the ingredients there for like a pretty vicious cocktail.

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Yeah. And it's interesting because we were just talking about networking

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00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:19,600
and how like a lot of that is, well, hey, I have, you have some sort of value.

242
00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:21,480
You can bring me some sort of value.

243
00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,840
Networking in and of itself is somewhat transactional.

244
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If not immediately, maybe in the future, we can each get some value together.

245
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We should know each other.

246
00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:36,040
And the flip side of that is as soon as the perceived value

247
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that you offer isn't of value to them anymore.

248
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Next, like on to the next one.

249
00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:47,480
And does that stop like, do you now have like your walls up

250
00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:51,280
where like even if someone does have just your genuine interest

251
00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:55,000
and they just want to be a friend, like, is it hard for you to to kind of

252
00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:58,400
accept that and not take it with a grain of salt?

253
00:13:58,400 --> 00:13:59,760
Yeah, it is.

254
00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:03,960
If it's in fact, it's tough because I'm such a I'm such a likable person.

255
00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:05,240
I'm such an outgoing guy.

256
00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:07,000
Like, I love people.

257
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I love to see people smile and I'm very giving.

258
00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:14,200
But, you know, as of as I get deeper and as I reach, you know, again,

259
00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:17,000
and different accolades,

260
00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:19,840
I mean, you know, new energies that are even more confusing.

261
00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:24,160
So now I have a wall because not only not only if I lost

262
00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:26,760
the people I love in my life, the violence,

263
00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:29,600
but now I'm dealing with a new demon, a new battle.

264
00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:32,920
And that's people who pretend like they care

265
00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:36,920
for for transactional experience with me

266
00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:41,200
with the expectations of I'm either going to improve their life

267
00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:45,960
or further their career in some way, shape or form.

268
00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:51,320
Do you do you find yourself with folks around that?

269
00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:57,560
Because I can see how somebody sees the success that you're achieving.

270
00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:03,240
And if they think that they can, if they think they can get a piece of it,

271
00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:07,440
they will find a reason to feel entitled to it.

272
00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:12,840
Yes. Do you do you find like just because, hey, you picked me up from the airport.

273
00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:14,720
Now I got to give you two points on my album.

274
00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:16,640
What the hell is going on here?

275
00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:21,200
You know, the scariest thing right now for me is not to accept any favors.

276
00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:25,040
From anybody I had, I had a person recently

277
00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:30,840
that like sent me a I bet this happened a lot as a recently

278
00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:34,200
as I continued to have more success and entertainment.

279
00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:39,600
And those like shoot me a list of all the things that they did for me.

280
00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:44,200
Oh, man. Whenever I don't respond in a timely fashion

281
00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:48,000
or I don't do something they want me to do, they'll have like a bullet point

282
00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:51,040
of things that they've done for me.

283
00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:52,320
This shit hurts me.

284
00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:55,640
I'm like, whoa, you're not you're not my friend at all.

285
00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,320
And I cool back to the streets.

286
00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:02,560
So then I go back to, you know, you got the professional Mario

287
00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:05,280
Cannon, the businessman, and you got the street smart dude, right?

288
00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:07,080
So now I got to play the game.

289
00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:09,840
So now I got to play this game with people and understand that

290
00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:13,760
at any given moment, you're going to show me your true colors

291
00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:14,880
and your teeth are going to show.

292
00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:18,160
So I got to make sure that I'm on my game and I don't expose

293
00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:19,560
too much of myself to people.

294
00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:22,760
I'm not vulnerable emotionally to people anymore on that level.

295
00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:25,560
That must be tough.

296
00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:30,720
And I think in a way, more power to you for being able to develop

297
00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:35,880
that skill of being able to spot that, but then also like build up

298
00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:37,920
your defenses in order to deal with it.

299
00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,400
Now, you mentioned like you built a brick, a brick wall.

300
00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,920
I'm wondering, did you do you feel like you kind of built that wall on your own?

301
00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:48,600
Or did you have to go and find help?

302
00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,840
And develop some sort of way to determine

303
00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:56,200
who has my best interests in mind and who doesn't.

304
00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:58,120
Well, right.

305
00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,240
So I do my trials and tribulations.

306
00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:03,120
I lost a lot of money.

307
00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:05,280
You know, I'm saying I lost a lot of money helping people.

308
00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:07,680
I lost a lot of money believing in people.

309
00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:09,800
I lost a lot of time, a lot of friendships.

310
00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:14,320
So those losses you don't get to see, you know, I lost six figures last year, man.

311
00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:17,040
And investments and this is helping people.

312
00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:19,440
But none of the people, you know, that I thought were my

313
00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:22,320
none of those people are going to be there, you know, not going to save me.

314
00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:24,480
Right. I just you know, what's crazy.

315
00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:26,880
And we're talking we're talking about this.

316
00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:28,360
I just I just performed.

317
00:17:28,360 --> 00:17:31,480
I just did a song about this called Bulletproof Hearts.

318
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:35,320
About this topic, I'm actually going to be dropping out here soon.

319
00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:37,120
I'm going to shoot a video. Oh, sweet.

320
00:17:37,120 --> 00:17:39,560
Yeah, it's even deeper than rich in pain.

321
00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:42,880
Yeah, I'm excited to hear that one.

322
00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:45,920
I think unfortunately,

323
00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:51,960
some of the best music comes from these dire, shitty situations.

324
00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:53,800
Jumping darkness, man.

325
00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:57,080
And I think you alluded to it earlier, where like, you know,

326
00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:00,240
when you were growing up, you had a different kind of darkness.

327
00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:05,440
One based on where just to your area, you didn't really have any any say.

328
00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:08,800
Right. It kind of just came to you or you were put in it.

329
00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:13,000
And most people don't have the opportunity

330
00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:17,080
to get anywhere close to this, where they can relate

331
00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,800
to the kind of trials and tribulations you're going through.

332
00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:26,280
Are you have you found now that those artists that have become your peers,

333
00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:29,120
you can connect to them on a level

334
00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:32,240
because they can relate to the similar kind of thing?

335
00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:34,880
Oh, yeah, definitely. I get it.

336
00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:40,840
And I know how people get upset or like celebrities blow me off

337
00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:43,960
or they don't respond to my message or they're too good.

338
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,000
No, these people are freaking busy.

339
00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:49,000
They do not. They got a life, too.

340
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:50,920
They got family. They got kids.

341
00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:53,040
They got love lives. They got a wife.

342
00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:55,240
They got girlfriends. They got everything.

343
00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:57,040
Husbands, kids.

344
00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:59,000
These these people are busy.

345
00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,320
These people got schedules they have to tend to.

346
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:04,160
There's a lot of people that depend on that one person.

347
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,000
That one person has a bodyguard, an assistant, a manager.

348
00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:09,240
All these people will make a living off them.

349
00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:10,680
They have to make sure their own point.

350
00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:13,240
So they don't have time to be talking,

351
00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:16,000
speaking about hearsay or sidelined talk.

352
00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:18,560
We got it. Are we doing business together or what?

353
00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:23,360
I got a mission to accomplish, especially I'm at a part of my point

354
00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:27,120
in my career right now where I've got to go all the way in. Oh, yeah.

355
00:19:27,120 --> 00:19:29,520
I don't have the leisure time that

356
00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:32,760
artists have solidified in the game may have over me,

357
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:35,800
because right now everything counts for me

358
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:37,720
because it's either going to make me a break.

359
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:40,440
You know what I mean? That's where I'm at, you know?

360
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:41,800
Absolutely.

361
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,680
But I think that that's a really great point, because it's almost like

362
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:48,640
to the general psyche of like hip hop fans in particular,

363
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,120
like ludicrous is kind of ludicrous.

364
00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:55,200
He's if he puts out another album or another movie in our minds,

365
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,280
he's still Luda. We kind of he is who he is to us.

366
00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:04,560
But you are still kind of forming your print and that psyche.

367
00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:08,840
And yeah, I'm wondering when, you know, you've talked to Twista,

368
00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:11,720
you've talked to Ludacris and, you know, the game and E40.

369
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,640
What are some of the things that they might say

370
00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:22,960
are the biggest differences between coming up in 2004 to now?

371
00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:25,880
It's easier and harder at the same time.

372
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:30,640
It's easier to to create the templates you need and appear like you're something,

373
00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,680
but it's harder to actually break into the industry. Right.

374
00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,880
So it's easier to pretend now because there's more access

375
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,480
to things that make you look good and things that can,

376
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,120
you know, appear to be working for you. Right.

377
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:47,160
But then it's harder to be in the industry because it's so monopolized

378
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:51,360
by the bigger machines like the labels control. Right.

379
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,280
So a lot of people think they're doing something, they got headways.

380
00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:57,600
But the labels own all the stream.

381
00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:00,120
They own all that stuff, but they control that.

382
00:21:00,120 --> 00:21:02,080
So that their artists are always going to beat you.

383
00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,680
You're never going to fully beat them.

384
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:06,360
You got to you got to join a machine.

385
00:21:06,360 --> 00:21:08,560
You don't join a machine. You're not going to know.

386
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,880
So you got to be you got to you got to be good with

387
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:14,440
being successful in your own right.

388
00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,320
Success has to be defined by what you consider success.

389
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:19,920
Like you're making money doing what you love to do.

390
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,200
You already want you want in life.

391
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:24,560
You mean, you just want in general far as being

392
00:21:26,360 --> 00:21:30,640
have having a foot in society and being somebody that contributes to

393
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:37,800
the ongoing cycle of life and helping the overall general people. Right.

394
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:39,680
Yeah, you want.

395
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:43,640
So don't do I would say like, don't let anybody

396
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:46,200
do any machine trick you out of the spot that you already have.

397
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:50,400
It's just because, you know, this you don't have 10 million dollars.

398
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:53,760
A million dollars is just as good.

399
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:55,280
Just because you don't have a Bentley.

400
00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:58,480
Yeah. You know, hey, a Mercedes is just as good.

401
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:03,680
Yep. You know, man, man, if people could just understand

402
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:05,640
how much this stuff doesn't matter.

403
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:10,920
I think you're 100 percent right, because I think an ingredient

404
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:15,080
that gets left out of so many people's equation of like

405
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,760
or their recipe of like what they think success is.

406
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:21,480
Want to get on my Gary Vee vibe here.

407
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,200
But like happiness is often

408
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,800
an ingredient that is left out of the equation

409
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:32,000
because they think that the recipe will equal happiness.

410
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,600
Oh, the Bentley. Oh, 10 million in the bank account instead of two.

411
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:39,880
Oh, the five five thousand square foot house instead of the three thousand.

412
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:45,320
And it's like if you're always chasing something,

413
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,120
it's hard to define what that success is.

414
00:22:49,120 --> 00:22:52,840
And if you if you can't attain it, will you ever be happy?

415
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:57,680
And it's like this crazy game that we all play,

416
00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:01,120
where I think a lot of people have a hard time being like, you know what?

417
00:23:01,120 --> 00:23:05,280
This is OK. If I can maintain this, I'll be good.

418
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:07,760
But America, the capitalism, it's always like, well,

419
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:09,960
we got to be five percent better every year.

420
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:11,680
And if not, then I fucked up.

421
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,680
And it's like, what is the level where if I make OK,

422
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,920
I'm making a making a million dollars a year and I'm pretty good?

423
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,400
Like, why not just stay here?

424
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,360
This crazy because I definitely my next release,

425
00:23:23,360 --> 00:23:24,760
I want to just release it with you guys.

426
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:26,720
I think this is going to segue this.

427
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:28,400
But this is how organic this is.

428
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:29,840
Elliot, check this out.

429
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:31,600
The song I did yesterday.

430
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,200
Any one of these clips of us talking could be the intro to it

431
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,760
because it's so powerful to what I'm what I'm speaking on.

432
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:40,080
Just being happy.

433
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:44,080
And I can I can honestly tell you at one of my peaks

434
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,480
in the fat plant past year or so,

435
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,240
I've never been so miserable in my life with people.

436
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:53,200
I was happy that I was finally doing something that I love to do

437
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,000
on a bigger grand scheme.

438
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:59,120
But I felt terrible inside, man, because, you know, people that I love

439
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:00,880
started to hate me.

440
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,960
And people thought that I had to sign a big deal

441
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:06,800
because Twitter took me on tour.

442
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,080
So I was getting messages about money that I was getting death threats.

443
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,080
I'm getting death threats from people, family, random,

444
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,080
because I wouldn't help because, you know,

445
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,560
I didn't have what they thought I had to give.

446
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,200
Yep. I think I think a lot of people, they see,

447
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:25,760
oh, he's on Empire. He's on TV.

448
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,440
He must have 10 million dollars in order.

449
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:30,760
They don't quite get it.

450
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,640
And I think even if OK, they say, wow, he's on tour.

451
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:34,640
He made it.

452
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:38,160
They don't see the amount of money that might have gone into producing

453
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,320
the album that you performed on tour, but they don't know

454
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,600
that you might have had to pay to get to every show

455
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:47,400
and to buy your own meals and to if you have your friends

456
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,840
with you to sell merch or to be a bodyguard or something.

457
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:51,400
You're like you're paying.

458
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,160
They don't I don't think they get it.

459
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,200
I think they I'm independent.

460
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,840
I think it's easy for Joe Schmo, who doesn't understand

461
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:03,240
that Spotify doesn't pay artists jack shit or that like an opening gig,

462
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,720
although great for your career, might not have paid a ton.

463
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,160
You might have to pay to do it.

464
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,560
Now, we've talked about it on other episodes,

465
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:16,280
but whether it's the music business or on social media as a whole,

466
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:21,440
what resonates with an audience these days amongst all the bullshit

467
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,080
and all the bad content there is out there,

468
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:29,240
what resonates with folks is someone who is authentic.

469
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,920
And whether you agree or disagree with whatever it is,

470
00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:36,160
you can tell when someone is passionate and authentic

471
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,760
about somebody or something.

472
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:44,240
And I think Mario and his personal stories

473
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:49,480
and his authenticity is what comes across in his songwriting.

474
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:56,480
People feel like they they don't feel that Mario is being disingenuous.

475
00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:01,800
And that's something that a lot of musicians can't say for themselves.

476
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,080
Remember, you told me what to do.

477
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:12,200
You told me whoever I did my feature with when I was doing a song with Twister,

478
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,480
I asked you guys, you said if you can do you do a song with Twister,

479
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,120
see if you can do some shows with him, see if you can be,

480
00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:21,400
you know, build a relationship with him, maybe pay to do some shows with him.

481
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,360
I didn't exactly what you guys told me to do.

482
00:26:24,360 --> 00:26:28,320
And the ship blew the ship blew me up because after after I paid

483
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,800
to do shows with him, he just took me along with because he loved me so much.

484
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,720
He twisted genuinely like, you know, when you pay for a feature,

485
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:37,440
yes, I paid for a feature.

486
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,800
But after that, there was no more features.

487
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,360
Now I'm getting the shit done for free.

488
00:26:42,360 --> 00:26:47,160
Now he wants to bring me along because I add I add value to his set.

489
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,200
I bring value to being being around him.

490
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,000
I don't address nice. I have real jewelry.

491
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:55,400
I'm respectful. I'm on time.

492
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,160
I have security. My manager is there.

493
00:26:58,160 --> 00:26:59,400
The music is great.

494
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,720
You know, I have fans.

495
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,400
I bring them to a younger crowd, you know, all that.

496
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:06,320
So it's good. It's buttoned up.

497
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:07,960
But I did what you guys told me to do.

498
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:09,000
Just don't do a feature.

499
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:10,560
Just be doing a feature to say, I did a feature.

500
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:11,360
I got a song with someone.

501
00:27:11,360 --> 00:27:14,880
So, you know, you need to do a song with somebody you can build with. Yep.

502
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:16,200
Well, that's awesome.

503
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,000
I that does sound like something we would say.

504
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,400
And that's something you guys said. That's awesome.

505
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:22,000
That's great to hear.

506
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:26,240
I'm glad we had a part of helping helping that out because that's really cool.

507
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,440
And you guys did, man. Yeah, I took it.

508
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:32,160
I'll even read like your classes and like when you guys

509
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,000
post informationals and videos,

510
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,040
I always watch them and I always take notes.

511
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,600
Hell, yeah. To this day. That's great.

512
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,160
That's why I want to roll out my release with you guys.

513
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,560
I want to plan a release just with you.

514
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,080
This about this. Yeah.

515
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,600
I already did the song. Right. It's already done.

516
00:27:51,120 --> 00:27:53,480
Oh, well, you know, we'd be down to help.

517
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,600
And I mean, since you're doing this with me, I'll do it for free.

518
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:00,560
Y'all heard that? Yeah, right.

519
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,200
It's in here. This is a verbal contract right here.

520
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:08,840
But I mean, I think that is that is advice I've given to many folks

521
00:28:09,120 --> 00:28:11,680
where, like, yes, it's great to.

522
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:16,480
If you had just had a song with Twista and that was it.

523
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,760
Hey, Barty, but here's my audio file.

524
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,040
Thanks for the five grand. See you later.

525
00:28:23,120 --> 00:28:28,160
That's yes, that's it's a nice benefit for you to have on your album or something.

526
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:34,160
But it's now still something that you need to pay to promote and get out there.

527
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:36,160
If you could have.

528
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,640
It sounds like you did say are other artists with another feature.

529
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:44,520
If you could have paid seven thousand and gotten him to do five or six

530
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:48,320
Instagram videos together, maybe you do an interview like this together.

531
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:50,920
And you can come out and say, hey, I live in Atlanta.

532
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:52,840
When you're here, I want to open with you.

533
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:54,720
I'll build that into the feature.

534
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:59,160
Like now, all of a sudden, it's not just an audio file and an email.

535
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,440
And this person doesn't really know you.

536
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,480
Now they're actually doing business with you.

537
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,360
They're conversing. They're starting to see this guy has his shit together.

538
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,000
Oh, OK. Hey, you said you could do Atlanta.

539
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,160
We're doing Charleston next. Are you free then, too?

540
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:16,520
And now all of a sudden, it's exactly because this guy's on time.

541
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,120
He's not a dick. He knows what's going on.

542
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,600
Like, oh, maybe we can do something here because I've been looking for an opener.

543
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,720
Like, exactly, I'm really glad that worked out

544
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:31,520
because a lot of this, the music marketing help can be kind of theoretical.

545
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,760
You know, oh, if Twista asks you to do a collab, here's how you do it.

546
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,280
But like, you know, ninety nine point nine percent of people

547
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,000
aren't ever going to get that opportunity. Never.

548
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,560
But it's still good to know what to do.

549
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,400
And there's a perfect example of like, look, this is how it works.

550
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,680
It might not be a linear line, but you got to go up like this

551
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:50,640
and you got to work with people. You got to network.

552
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:52,880
You got to bring shit to the table.

553
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,320
And I think too many musicians think that, well,

554
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,600
what I'm bringing to the table is good music.

555
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,240
Nobody cares. Great. That's the bare minimum.

556
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:02,280
OK, so now what?

557
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:06,720
You know, and unless you can rap like Kendrick Lamar and you're the top

558
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:11,560
you're the people go, whoa, unless you go, unless you got that kind of talent,

559
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:13,800
you have to play the game.

560
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,040
And if you don't play the game, you will never win.

561
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,360
And look at the attention span of people is shorter and shorter.

562
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:21,440
That's why TikTok is so successful.

563
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,880
So now people really don't care how good you rap.

564
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,680
A lot of the times they're looking for shock value.

565
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:33,200
So they look they want you to entice their their emotion, right?

566
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:35,880
They want you to entice and stimulate them.

567
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,760
They want to be stimulated whether you like it or not.

568
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:42,640
People love engaging with stuff they do not like.

569
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,200
Right. You suck.

570
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:47,560
Go back to wherever you're from.

571
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,800
People like saying that's part of like why the algorithm like

572
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,760
because TikTok and Instagram and Spotify, for that matter,

573
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:58,240
are indifferent to if they think your content is any good.

574
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,960
But if Instagram is like, man, a lot of people are engaging with this post,

575
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,880
let's get more people to check it out, whether it's good or bad.

576
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,360
That's why some of this stuff that's like really polarizing,

577
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:13,000
where some people go, you know, Donald Trump's a moron and no, Joe Biden's

578
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:14,960
a moron like that shit.

579
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,280
People engage with it because they're either saying,

580
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,640
yeah, I'm right or no, you're an idiot.

581
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,720
And if you're in the middle and you're just kind of, yeah,

582
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:26,800
this is a solid song and it doesn't it's about, you know, whatever.

583
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,280
It doesn't get that like extreme reaction.

584
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:31,560
No shock value.

585
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:32,440
And I think you're right.

586
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:37,640
The attention span is so short that the days like when I discovered Kid Cudi,

587
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:40,720
he had, you know, the kid named Cudi mixtape.

588
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,200
It was, yeah, of course, day and night was on there.

589
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:47,240
But the fact that the whole mixtape was awesome made me a fan.

590
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:48,720
And then like even J.

591
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:50,280
Cole, he had the warm up.

592
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,280
And what was the other one?

593
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,280
But those two mixtapes,

594
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,120
all those artists, like they got popular, at least in my head,

595
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,000
or really resonated with me because I liked the album.

596
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:05,040
But the days of like finding a new artist I've never really heard of

597
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:09,560
and checking out their whole album, not happening, not happening.

598
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,960
You're not going. And the first of all, the machine will let you.

599
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,960
The machine is going to keep pushing the same artists in your face, man,

600
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,760
because because financially that's going to that's going to help them win.

601
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,160
Right. And there's a lot of different entities tied to that.

602
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:24,200
But you have to deal with what they're putting out.

603
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,520
I mean, they want to for they try to force you to listen to a lot of different music.

604
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:29,200
So, yeah. Yeah.

605
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:34,400
Have you found that as you get older, you like the stuff you listen to

606
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:39,120
changes or is it more like the stuff you listen to

607
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,240
is the same stuff you listened to eight years ago

608
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,080
and as you just listen to it again and again,

609
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:46,360
because that's what I found myself doing.

610
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:48,880
I'm wondering what it's like for you.

611
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,920
I'm as an artist, I'm always listening to new stuff, right?

612
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,960
I love new sounds, but I listen to the same stuff.

613
00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:00,480
That's so like I'll listen to the same similar

614
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,840
80 cent dance music that is remade by maybe a new artist

615
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,520
that's making 80 cent wave type music. Got it.

616
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,240
So, you know, even like when Tory Lane's made that album,

617
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:12,800
but the Alone at Prom album, right?

618
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:14,920
That whole album was 80s driven.

619
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,000
That's my favorite type of music to listen to is

620
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:22,360
sunset down the street, driving down the street, Miami, because it makes you feel good.

621
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,320
Yeah. When I was in when I was in the hood, man, when I was in the street,

622
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,200
you know, when I was doing my thing in the street, you know, I ride around

623
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:32,200
and I'm in a gutter and I'm listening to Sinny Lopper.

624
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:34,040
I'm listening to Taylor Dane.

625
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,080
Like I'm in the street listening to this stuff.

626
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,800
And I can't I can't make this up, man.

627
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,800
And I always knew I was different, you know, musically inclined.

628
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,320
And I love I love feeling good.

629
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:50,880
So at least that music made me feel like I was in California.

630
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,000
It made me feel like I was in Florida.

631
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:54,960
It made me feel like I was somewhere where it's beautiful,

632
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:59,920
even though I'm surrounded by poverty and I was surrounded by pain and crime.

633
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:05,680
That song made me feel like I was in a Scarface movie when he got the new car.

634
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,800
You know, that's why I would listen to them, the disco 80s,

635
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,000
the bounce around the Technotronics, the rich.

636
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:14,680
Yeah. Oh, yeah. You know.

637
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:17,040
So that's why I sample a lot of that stuff, right?

638
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:21,240
Hell, you know, like like the Stevie B's, the Madonna's ace of bass.

639
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:23,760
Sure. All that stuff, man.

640
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,120
I listen to a lot of different things like that.

641
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:27,480
Well, I think that's a good thing.

642
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,120
It's it's so easy to get pigeonholed into like one

643
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,400
small neighborhood of the city of music.

644
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:38,040
And you can take things of like, well, hey, like,

645
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:41,520
I like how the Beatles structured these songs.

646
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:43,320
I bet I can structure one like that.

647
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:44,360
I can make it my own.

648
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,080
And like music has been taking from one another,

649
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,360
like from itself since the beginning.

650
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:51,440
You know, so like you have you.

651
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:56,120
You can get things of what worked for in excess in 1988

652
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,120
with like the way they broke down the drum beat or something.

653
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:02,320
You could apply that to a drill beat now.

654
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:04,360
And it might sound totally different,

655
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,320
but you got the idea from going, hey, Phil Collins did this.

656
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:08,040
It was dope.

657
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:09,640
Like, let's put it in this song.

658
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:11,360
I got a drill. I got a drill. Phil Collins.

659
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:13,680
You got a quick drill calling you.

660
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,280
Yeah, I'm a I'm a change drill car.

661
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:17,680
Three is three years old.

662
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:19,800
It's three years old, though. Got it.

663
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:21,520
It's three years old. I've already recorded it.

664
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:22,680
That's awesome.

665
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:24,840
If you make a drill Collins mixtape,

666
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,160
I would like to I would like to be there.

667
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,360
Well, what I'm what I'm releasing right now,

668
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:33,960
I'm releasing, you know, two back to back projects.

669
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,200
So I have a like I have a label meeting tomorrow, man.

670
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,040
It's one of my first major label meetings.

671
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:42,640
And like I said, I've been doing music for over 20 years, man.

672
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,600
So I haven't you know, many times people tell me to give up,

673
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:47,120
you know, right.

674
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:48,880
And it's crazy. I'm just now talking to a label

675
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:50,680
and I've been doing this forever.

676
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:52,680
And I'm like, man, you to you. Oh, you're 30s now.

677
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,920
You got to quit, you know, raise a family.

678
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,360
And if you guys even know how old these artists really are,

679
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,080
they're anything like I have.

680
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,760
I have people in the industry that I know for a fact

681
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:08,640
that ages are fake, but I can't close an information.

682
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:10,720
You got to play the game.

683
00:36:10,720 --> 00:36:14,200
I got to play the game, so, you know, but I tell people, man,

684
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,160
this is a marathon.

685
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:20,120
You got to keep working at the at the you got to just keep going.

686
00:36:20,720 --> 00:36:22,800
You got to put everything into it.

687
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,840
You can't. And, you know, your biggest dream killers

688
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,360
are your peers and the people you love.

689
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,720
They will tell you to quit, but they would tell you, man,

690
00:36:31,720 --> 00:36:33,880
you need to be more responsible.

691
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:37,040
And being an artist, being a rapper is irresponsible

692
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:39,960
because you spend a lot of money on things

693
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:41,920
that you're not guaranteed to get a return on.

694
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:44,880
Yep. I think that is true.

695
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,440
I think one of the harsh realities that I've had to

696
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:50,880
or that I think I've learned as as an adult

697
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:56,320
is people want to see you be successful,

698
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,400
but not more successful than them.

699
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:04,080
Yeah. And as soon as you're all of a sudden, what?

700
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:05,680
Who do you think you are, nephew?

701
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,160
Like, I think you're hot shot because you make money now.

702
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:09,520
Like a lot of that.

703
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:11,800
And like, I'm sure it's different.

704
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:13,720
You and I grew up in very different.

705
00:37:13,720 --> 00:37:16,960
I grew up in small town New Hampshire in the middle of fucking nowhere,

706
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:18,360
like in the woods.

707
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,680
And so I assume our childhoods were very different.

708
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,600
But I think a lot of the thing of just people in general,

709
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:30,600
especially when someone is younger than them doing like

710
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:34,160
because at some point, a lot of people have this, man, I fucked up moment.

711
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,520
Or if I went all in, what would I have been?

712
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:40,360
I don't think you're going to have that because you're going all in.

713
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:44,360
OK. It's almost like if I saw some 25 year old

714
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,800
with a Ferrari or something and just like he made it.

715
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:50,360
A part of me is like that little fucker.

716
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,440
You know, it's like I think that's natural.

717
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:58,000
But it sucks that because as you get you climb that ladder,

718
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,920
there's less people who are at the same level as you.

719
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,880
And there's more people who resent that you're up there

720
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,160
either because they think they should be up there

721
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:08,400
or they don't understand how you got there.

722
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:09,560
They think you're lucky.

723
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:11,960
And they come out with every sort of excuse

724
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:15,600
other than he worked really hard and he's super talented and he earns it.

725
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,640
You know, they'll do anything to discredit you.

726
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:22,000
They anything anything to discredit your growth

727
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,160
instead of just, you know what to do, work fucking hard, man.

728
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:28,240
Well, they don't see the hard work.

729
00:38:28,240 --> 00:38:29,320
What's that like?

730
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,800
There's some sort of like Scotty Pippen quote or something where it's like,

731
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:37,560
if you want us, if I got to perform in this one minute

732
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:42,840
in front of thousands, then I need to perform in front of no one for a thousand

733
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:46,720
like for thousands of minutes to make sure I'm ready to even have the stage

734
00:38:46,720 --> 00:38:47,680
is something like that.

735
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,160
Yeah. But people don't see the hard work.

736
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:51,560
They don't see you in the gym.

737
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:55,160
They don't see you sitting there in that room writing 20 songs

738
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:57,400
to find the three that you want to go to the studio with.

739
00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:58,520
Like they don't even care.

740
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:00,640
They don't you don't see the ten thousand dollars.

741
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:01,800
I wasted recording these songs.

742
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,040
I'm not going to use one of them.

743
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:04,960
Right. They don't get that.

744
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:06,920
You know, videos I got I can't drop.

745
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:12,600
That sucks because they're dated or legal issues or three.

746
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:14,680
I mean, they might be too incriminated.

747
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:16,240
I just I can't.

748
00:39:16,240 --> 00:39:17,720
You know what I'm saying?

749
00:39:17,720 --> 00:39:18,720
Uh huh. Yeah.

750
00:39:18,720 --> 00:39:19,920
Well, that's a thing now.

751
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:21,640
I'm shot great videos.

752
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:23,880
I got great visuals, but I can't even drop them.

753
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,520
How many people will cringe after spending thousands of dollars on something

754
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:28,840
that you can't use?

755
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:32,000
Yeah, that sucks.

756
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:34,360
Could you like blur your faces out and be like,

757
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:36,360
oh, somebody made a video of my song.

758
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:37,040
I wonder who.

759
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:42,000
Man, it's there's no right or wrong way to get in the industry

760
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:43,880
because you're in the industry.

761
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:49,080
I feel like the moment you you put material out on the web,

762
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,080
but it's up to you to follow through.

763
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:57,200
Right. And to accept being in the industry and accept what comes with that.

764
00:39:57,680 --> 00:39:59,320
And a lot of a lot of sacrifice.

765
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:00,240
And it's going to be a lot.

766
00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:02,040
There's a lot on the Internet, especially on Instagram.

767
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:02,840
There's a lot of scams.

768
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:04,520
A lot of people get scammed.

769
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:06,160
Boost your profile.

770
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:07,960
Take it to the next level.

771
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:09,960
Get your distribution deal.

772
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:11,760
There's a lot of scams out there.

773
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,000
But there's one scam that.

774
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:17,040
There's one thing that won't work with somebody that's hardworking.

775
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:19,200
It's just being genuine and put in work.

776
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,280
They can't scam you out of your art.

777
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:25,240
So, you know, your art is something that nobody can ever take from you.

778
00:40:25,240 --> 00:40:26,440
They can steal.

779
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:28,960
But you still that art is stealing you.

780
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:30,280
You still can create.

781
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:32,000
And that's why I still do it.

782
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,000
And that's why I'm still in the game.

783
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:37,240
It's not because I definitely wasn't making a bunch of money doing music.

784
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:39,640
But music allowed me to do business.

785
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:44,320
Music opened the doors for me to do business, to make money outside of music.

786
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:50,160
Yes, I now see as I'm getting older, the artists I'm working with tend to be younger.

787
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:54,160
And that is what you just said is something where I find myself

788
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:58,040
starting to think about a lot is how just me messing around with music

789
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:01,640
got me to a spot where now I'm doing business with folks.

790
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:05,520
Like, I met this really great business guy here in Charlotte who, like,

791
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:09,280
he has he's an older guy side hustle, like makes some rock music.

792
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:11,840
But because I started working with him there, now all of a sudden,

793
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,800
I'm involved with some other things that have nothing to do with music.

794
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,160
But we met because of music.

795
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:20,600
And I've done ever since I I used to make music.

796
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:21,720
I was nothing special.

797
00:41:21,720 --> 00:41:24,880
But if I had just stayed in, like making music for myself,

798
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:27,000
you and I probably would have never met.

799
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:30,320
I probably never would have, you know, had a conversation with Wendy Day

800
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:32,480
or like Royce the Five Nine for a minute.

801
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:36,280
But because I kind of switched and now I was like, let me find

802
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:40,760
how can I give value to folks in music rather than just ask for attention?

803
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:45,760
And once I started giving value, I've met you, I've met some people.

804
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:49,840
And because I've done these things in music, I've been able to

805
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:55,360
sidestep into these things that I never would have been involved in

806
00:41:55,360 --> 00:42:00,720
as just some guy or, you know, another, you know, like getting in here

807
00:42:00,720 --> 00:42:05,720
has opened the door for me in so many different ways that it's really incredible.

808
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:09,760
So get in the music industry because it teaches you how to market.

809
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:14,680
It teaches you project management of working with a producer, mixing it,

810
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:18,840
getting a song done, figuring out how to get it on Spotify.

811
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:21,920
Like it's not necessarily easy.

812
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:27,880
So it gives you a lot of skills that are very applicable to other areas.

813
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:29,120
No, definitely.

814
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:33,280
And like, again, music has allowed me to do business is allow me to.

815
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:35,280
Oh, you rap. Oh, yeah, I got this company.

816
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:36,960
Oh, what do you do over there? Cool.

817
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:40,560
And then all of a sudden, you're involved with another company

818
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:44,040
because you did a song with Twister or you do music and they like your music.

819
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:45,240
They like you as a person.

820
00:42:45,240 --> 00:42:47,120
Now they want to work with you in this other entity

821
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:49,840
that's going to bring you revenue, which you're not getting revenue

822
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:52,640
directly from the music, but the music got you into the door

823
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:55,000
to get to get revenue from that particular business.

824
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:56,800
That's what music has done for me.

825
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,960
That's why I was able to, you know, that's why I own my own gym.

826
00:42:59,960 --> 00:43:02,240
You know, like in our own commercial real estate,

827
00:43:02,240 --> 00:43:03,600
I'm in my own building right now.

828
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:07,480
You know, like this is but I got this indirectly from music.

829
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:08,960
That's awesome.

830
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:12,200
That aligns something I say all the time is you use.

831
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:14,880
You don't monetize your music.

832
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:19,680
You use your music to build an audience and monetize the audience.

833
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:21,360
Maybe not for everybody.

834
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:25,000
Of course, you can make some money on streams, but the real money.

835
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:26,800
Buying a building.

836
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:30,400
The streamings, the streaming royalties don't buy you the building,

837
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:34,320
but meeting someone because of putting yourself out there

838
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:37,400
and your marketing successfully and however you ended up in that situation

839
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:39,560
indirectly gets you the building.

840
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,120
You monetize the audience, not the music.

841
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:44,880
Yeah, that and that's what's been working for me, man.

842
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:50,800
And that's why it feels so good to and to finally start to reach a level.

843
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:55,200
Like even now, this is my one of my biggest years getting booked for shows.

844
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:56,960
I'm, you know, I'm getting booked with Twista.

845
00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:59,200
Now I'm not. Now I'm performing with them.

846
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:00,640
So now they're booking.

847
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:02,080
Now I'm getting booked with this guy.

848
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:05,040
So I went I went from paying to open the paying him

849
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:08,080
to now charging a fee to be with them.

850
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:09,720
Love it. You earned it.

851
00:44:09,720 --> 00:44:11,080
And that's how it goes.

852
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:13,960
And that happened within what, two years, two, two years,

853
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:17,480
two to three years of this working and still working the same

854
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:19,640
and the same damn song and even make a new song.

855
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:20,720
Yeah, I got new songs with them.

856
00:44:20,720 --> 00:44:22,120
I'm going to record now.

857
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:25,040
But the same that one song and that one relationship

858
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:27,280
took me across the country.

859
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:28,960
Now I know promoters everywhere.

860
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:31,920
I know celebrities that they text me and text them back.

861
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:34,600
Like, you know, I'm in the I'm in the car now.

862
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:38,760
And but now I'm getting booked at a rate that a lot of artists

863
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,800
that who have who's had major label deals, I'm getting paid more than them.

864
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:45,200
So that goes to show you, you don't got to have

865
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,560
a major label deal or anything to be successful in your own right.

866
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:51,000
Just got to fucking stay the course.

867
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:53,280
Yeah. Put the work in. Put the work in.

868
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:58,200
I'm wondering, have you not had a big label

869
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:00,880
meeting by partly by choice?

870
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:05,120
And now you're at a point where like, OK, hey, I've got the 10,

871
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:08,000
the 10 X that they want to turn into 100.

872
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:10,200
I've finally got the 10.

873
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:15,000
Like, is this are you in this position because you chose to now

874
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:17,280
look out for a deal like this?

875
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:21,880
Or was it you've finally broke through this the floor and now they see you.

876
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:24,520
And now they're ready for you.

877
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:26,480
Both. Both. Both.

878
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:30,880
Again, the music has allowed me to do business.

879
00:45:31,240 --> 00:45:35,440
I had a mutual business connect and they.

880
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:39,480
Had a label they were dealing with,

881
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:42,760
getting them, you know, making sure the label had funding and things like that.

882
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:45,320
And they took a liking to me.

883
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:47,480
And, whoa, this guy's incredible.

884
00:45:47,720 --> 00:45:49,240
You don't got to do yet.

885
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:51,160
So then, you know, I had a couple of meetings, but

886
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:56,640
it was both like because, you know, it was expensive being an independent artist.

887
00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:59,520
Yeah. You spend you spend a lot of money.

888
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:03,200
You know, if I wasn't an independent artist, I'd probably be on a jet somewhere.

889
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:06,120
I don't know. But then again, I might not, because then I wouldn't have the

890
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:09,240
opportunities I have now. Wouldn't be talking to you. Right. Right.

891
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:13,280
You know, I told you the last thing I would want to plug

892
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:18,680
is the song Shooting Stars, because that's got one of my favorite

893
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:21,200
albums of all time is the documentary.

894
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:25,560
I think it's one of the most underrated hip hop albums of all time.

895
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:30,600
Yeah. I'm wondering how you linked up with the game.

896
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:33,200
And was that something where, hey, he was like a friend of a friend.

897
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:35,400
We linked it up or was like, hey, I went to L.A.

898
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:37,800
We got together and we sat there and we made the song.

899
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:40,280
Yo, I'll be honest with you, man.

900
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:43,880
I was dealing with a marketing guy on Instagram.

901
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:47,680
He was helping me build my portfolio like this for Instagram.

902
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:51,200
And he's like, hey, man, I got this on the game.

903
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:52,360
You want to you want to get on it?

904
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:54,920
And I was like, OK, whatever.

905
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:59,120
Yeah, I heard the song and I was like, man, I don't want to do no verse, man.

906
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:01,200
I'll do the chorus, the chorus.

907
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:02,920
The chorus was so dry.

908
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:04,280
I said, let me do the chorus.

909
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:07,920
So when I was in my mind, I might make sure I say my name and the chorus.

910
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,920
And, you know, this to make the chorus a little bit personal,

911
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:12,520
but still keep it lit.

912
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:16,320
So sure. When I said the chorus over there, I was like, this is fire.

913
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:20,360
So we did the song and it never dropped, never happened.

914
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:21,880
I just got the game file.

915
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:25,520
All of a sudden, I look up the other day and it's on the game's page.

916
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:28,480
Ah, and just out of nowhere.

917
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:31,120
Then my monthly listeners shoot up.

918
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:34,600
Right. So now I'm getting all this traction, organic traction from the game.

919
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:38,000
Yep. And then that's when the label sees the monthly listeners.

920
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:41,720
That's when the label comes, because you know how you know how it is.

921
00:47:41,720 --> 00:47:45,800
If you got over 100,000 monthly listeners, the labels are like, yeah, right.

922
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:47,240
We can make some money here.

923
00:47:47,240 --> 00:47:48,560
Let's make some money off this guy.

924
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:51,120
So once that happened,

925
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:52,760
that's when I got the label.

926
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:56,480
But that that song with the game was wasn't had nothing to do with me.

927
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:59,760
In fact, I had talked to the game via Internet,

928
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:04,440
and I was actually going to do a separate feature myself with him and fly out there.

929
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,360
But I was so busy working with the Twister thing.

930
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:09,640
I just, you know, I didn't get back to it because Twister had me

931
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:13,040
in every freaking city you could imagine down in Atlanta.

932
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:15,520
You know, I was in a lovers and friends tour.

933
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:18,680
A show like with Lauryn Hill and Snoop Dogg and almost like I was.

934
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:20,880
I performed in Vegas.

935
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:23,640
I went to Vegas as a rapper this time, not as a tourist.

936
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:26,440
You know, it was crazy.

937
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:28,120
The other side of Vegas.

938
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:30,120
Well, I got to see the other side of Vegas, man.

939
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:33,280
It was it was way different because I don't know, man.

940
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:35,760
I remember going to Vegas for like three hundred dollars.

941
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:38,200
My pocket, man, just trying to stretch it out.

942
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:40,520
You know, when I was back in the day and I was still rapping,

943
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:43,680
but I was down on money like that because I just had no money.

944
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:47,640
And I was going this time was different.

945
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:51,440
Like, I'm, you know, riding, you know, with all the artists

946
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:55,240
and Maya and Drew Hill.

947
00:48:55,240 --> 00:48:59,080
And I'm in the trailers, you know, I'm riding in the golf cart.

948
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:03,080
It's so it was, man, it was I'll even not explain it.

949
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:05,480
And it was actually, you know what?

950
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:07,720
We did an interview together when I was in Vegas.

951
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:09,960
Did we really? Yeah.

952
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,920
You guys, I did I did a video for you.

953
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:15,240
I was wearing a Red Bulls jersey.

954
00:49:15,240 --> 00:49:17,560
Oh, yeah. And I was in a trailer now.

955
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:18,600
That was I was in a trailer.

956
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:20,760
That was my trailer and with Twister.

957
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:24,320
And so when Twister has a trailer, it's like, oh, Mario Cannon is going to be with Twister.

958
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:26,280
They already expect to see me.

959
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:29,360
It's weird because when he goes places, people expect to see me.

960
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:33,120
You guys go together. Yeah.

961
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:36,320
Oh, man. That is so.

962
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:39,080
Wait, wait, wait. So in Vegas was Snoop Dogg there.

963
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:41,400
Snoop Dogg, Lauryn Hill.

964
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:45,720
I'm just dying to know what a night in Vegas with Snoop Dogg is like.

965
00:49:46,240 --> 00:49:47,120
I think you know what?

966
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:50,280
I didn't kick him that night because me and Twister had another show to go do.

967
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:53,480
So we had to go do it after set.

968
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:55,280
Oh, that must have been pretty cool.

969
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:57,600
Oh, that was lit. Yeah.

970
00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:00,120
So we leave there, go back to the room,

971
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:02,240
get ready for the after set.

972
00:50:02,240 --> 00:50:04,800
Boom. We go right to the after set.

973
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:07,880
Kill it. It was so dope, man. So dope.

974
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:10,440
Vegas is the place to have an after set.

975
00:50:10,720 --> 00:50:12,200
It was an after set for the after set.

976
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:14,000
That's for sure, man. It was lit.

977
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:15,920
I was excited, man. For real.

978
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:18,200
Damn. I'm in Vegas all the time.

979
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:20,480
I was in a Bradley show out there.

980
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:24,560
I saw that I was wondering how that happened, because I was like

981
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:27,560
because I was I follow him.

982
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:30,600
And one day I see a video.

983
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:33,200
You know, I'm kind of mindlessly and I see a video and it's you talking.

984
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:34,600
I'm like, oh, Mario.

985
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:37,960
And like, I click it and it's Brad's page and I'm like, what the fuck?

986
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:40,960
And it was just like such a surprise.

987
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:43,440
I was like, wait, what a what a weird moment.

988
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:44,840
We're like this. Oh, yeah.

989
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:48,400
There's a guy I used to work with and there is on the show that I like to watch.

990
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:50,040
Like it was kind of like this.

991
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:53,560
Like it happened so organically that I was like so surprised.

992
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:56,000
But that must have been pretty cool, huh?

993
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:57,480
That leaves fucking the man, dude.

994
00:50:57,480 --> 00:50:59,840
Gave me a cell phone and we love my song, Stevie J.

995
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:03,760
He actually likes my music, so it's pretty cool.

996
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:06,160
He seems like a fun guy to have a couple of drinks with,

997
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:08,280
especially in Vegas.

998
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:11,080
He just talks his shit, man. He's intense, man.

999
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:15,120
Really, that dude, he's he's a mother humbler to keep up with, man.

1000
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:17,320
Imagine trying to keep up with Bradley.

1001
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:19,680
Yeah, that's a that's a feat in itself, man.

1002
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:22,320
He's a huge machine. Yeah, he's a machine.

1003
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:23,720
Damn. Well, shout out to Brad.

1004
00:51:23,720 --> 00:51:25,320
Shout out to Bradley, man.

1005
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:27,760
Bradley and shout out to you.

1006
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:29,120
I really appreciate your time.

1007
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:33,360
I think a lot of what you've had to say, I think, is really going to resonate

1008
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:37,720
with some younger artists who are aspiring to get in the spots that you're in.

1009
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:41,680
Key takeaway, I thought, was being so

1010
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:46,200
clear, voyant of how powerful networking is

1011
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:49,240
instead of just being like, oh, no, it's all my talent.

1012
00:51:49,240 --> 00:51:51,480
What are you talking about? No, do the shows, man.

1013
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:55,280
Work with people, do the shows, do the small shows, do them all.

1014
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:59,120
Don't that what I see now with artists is they act like they made it

1015
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:00,240
before they ever made it.

1016
00:52:00,240 --> 00:52:03,600
And so they get managers.

1017
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:04,920
You don't even need managers yet.

1018
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:06,440
You don't need a manager. Yeah.

1019
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:09,160
You have nothing to manage.

1020
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:11,000
Yep. Yeah.

1021
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:14,120
I think that's a question artists ask me all the time is, well,

1022
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:15,800
where do I get a manager?

1023
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:18,280
Like, I need I need a manager.

1024
00:52:18,720 --> 00:52:22,720
You know, you need to know he doesn't pay for your studio time.

1025
00:52:22,720 --> 00:52:24,880
A manager doesn't pay for your studio time or anything.

1026
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:28,320
A manager simply manages the things you have in coming.

1027
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:30,880
So if you have people wanting to book you,

1028
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:33,360
that's when you need a manager until people are reaching out

1029
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:35,360
to pay you for your services.

1030
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:37,360
You need to be doing shit for free.

1031
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:38,920
Yep. And paying to do it.

1032
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:42,600
And where are you going to meet good managers at venues?

1033
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:45,640
So open for the guy who's there and who's getting paid.

1034
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:48,160
And then, wow, the manager might like what you're doing.

1035
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:50,520
And that manager got this guy a gig.

1036
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:52,080
He could probably get you one.

1037
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:54,480
One of my biggest moments in Chicago when I was

1038
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:58,960
what catapulted me to open for the fat joes and the 50 cent was

1039
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:02,280
I performed at a strip club.

1040
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:04,680
And it was a strip club.

1041
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:09,200
I paid 150 bucks to perform with like 50 other artists.

1042
00:53:09,720 --> 00:53:12,840
And the owner, I took my shirt off and was performing.

1043
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:16,080
And the owner of the strip club came out of her booth and said,

1044
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:17,920
I want that guy. He's amazing.

1045
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:20,960
His music, his music is amazing.

1046
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:22,120
Sounds different.

1047
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:23,320
He looks good.

1048
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:26,480
And he's and he's professional and he's iced the fuck out.

1049
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:28,600
Who is that? Yep. Yep.

1050
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:30,640
And now it was 50 other artists there.

1051
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:33,040
But I paid to be on that stage still.

1052
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:36,320
Yeah. And that's and that's how I started getting traction.

1053
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:37,400
And they were booking me.

1054
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:39,840
And after that, they started booking me all the time at that club.

1055
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:41,640
I was getting booked all the time.

1056
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:43,600
All because I spent 150 bucks.

1057
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:46,720
They showed up. 90 percent of the work is showing up. Yeah.

1058
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:48,120
There's nobody there to open up for.

1059
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:49,880
There was no big act.

1060
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:51,960
It was a bunch of this artist.

1061
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:53,720
Yeah. And it was a showcase.

1062
00:53:53,720 --> 00:53:56,920
You know, typically showcases are big money grabs.

1063
00:53:57,080 --> 00:53:58,840
But but then they are. I get it.

1064
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:00,120
But guess what?

1065
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:02,200
You there's other artists you can network with.

1066
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:03,440
There's other people you can network with.

1067
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:05,520
You never know who's freaking there. Yep.

1068
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:07,920
Never know. I 100 percent agree.

1069
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:09,960
All right, Mario. Well, I'll talk to you real soon.

1070
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:12,280
Thanks again. I.E. much love, man.

1071
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:16,000
Take care, man. All right. Peace out.

1072
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:20,240
I want the takeaway from this conversation with Mario Cannon

1073
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:26,520
to be how he built a network, how he built a business.

1074
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:29,160
He went out and did it.

1075
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:33,520
He didn't just make music, release it and wait for something to come to him.

1076
00:54:34,240 --> 00:54:37,840
And that's what I see a lot of musicians doing, unfortunately.

1077
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:39,960
Mario has great music.

1078
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:43,760
In addition to having great music, he went out and built something.

1079
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:49,720
So I want that to be the takeaway of how he went out and built this business.

1080
00:54:49,720 --> 00:54:54,600
And when you go out and build things like this and build a network,

1081
00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:58,720
things do and can start to fall in place.

1082
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:05,080
And I think it's really cool to hear him say that I helped him at all.

1083
00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:08,440
Back in the day when I was getting started helping musicians,

1084
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:13,360
he was just getting started and we gave him some good advice and makes me feel good.

1085
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:17,560
So that was Mario Mario.

1086
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:19,160
Thank you for joining us.

1087
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:23,520
I'm really glad that you cut through the music industry and the entertainment

1088
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:28,080
industry, and I'm glad anybody here who's listening is learning a little bit

1089
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:32,360
about how to cut through the bullshit that they see, especially in the music business.

1090
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:36,040
If you like the show and you want to support it, the best way

1091
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:40,520
to support the show short of sending me money is by subscribing

1092
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:43,560
or rating the show on wherever it is.

1093
00:55:43,720 --> 00:55:46,120
You are streaming your podcasts.

1094
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:51,400
Thank you very much for joining this episode of the Cutting Through Podcast.

1095
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:56,600
My name is Elliot Towsley and we will see you again some other time.